Loki

[Kirby101]

From what I read, it is more based on Busiek's Avengers Forever.
But if they are doing Secret Wars in any way, then yes, they are using Hickman.

[Immortal Weapon]

Yes. Kang is likely the immediate leader. But who is behind Kang, Galactus, Thanos and all the similar entities that are constantly driven to prune the omniverse? The same Beyonders that put a Universe halving kill code inside each one (Thanos) and a backup universe ending kill code inside every universe (Molecule Man).

It’s like how we first found out about Thanos in the post credit scene of Avengers 1. We will find out about Kang in the post credits scene of the Loki finale and find out about the Beyonders in the post credit scene of Kang’s film.

Kang isn't the type of villain to be a pawn. He wouldn't live up to his name if he did.

[Wikoogle]

Kang isn't the type of villain to be a pawn. He wouldn't live up to his name if he did.

He doesnt know he is a pawn of the beyonders, neither did Molecule Man, or Thanos or Galactus.

Life uses up resources to make more copies of itself.

Whatever space it is in which the multiverse exists will fill up faster without Galactus eating worlds, Thanos halving their universes and without the TVA pruning the multiverse. These entities exist for a reason.

Loki is beautifully setting all this up. Thanos failed at keeping the resources the simulation is taking up under control by pruning the population.

The TVA will likewise fail and the multiverse will remerge and use up way more resources than the Beyonders allocated to the simulation.

The incursions are coming, and Thanos failing and Loki ending the TVA will be the cause, its going to be amazing and its going to make the Infinity War story arc look like a childs game.

Those who read Hickman’s amazing New Avengers storyline about the Illuminati and the Incursions and the Fantastic Four series that led to that storyline will probably agree that this is one of the greatest story arcs in comicbook history.

And with the latest episode’s reveal that someone else is behind the TVA, I cant help but think the Beyonders are ultimately behind the whole thing.

Who else cares more about pruning the multiverse and keeping it resource efficient more than the being running the whole thing? The Beyonders are almost certainly behind entities like Thanos and Galactus that serve to keep the multiverse managable...

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-a-Simulation))

I just hope the MCU gets the Russo Brothers to direct the eventual films about the Incursions and the war between the Avengers and The Great Society (aka. The Justice League).

[Adam Allen]

Those who read Hickman’s amazing New Avengers storyline about the Illuminati and the Incursions and the Fantastic Four series that led to that storyline will probably agree that this is one of the greatest story arcs in comicbook history.

And with the latest episode’s reveal that someone else is behind the TVA, I cant help but think the Beyonders are ultimately behind the whole thing. Who else cares more about pruning the multiverse and keeping it resource efficient more than the being running the whole thing? The Beyonders are almost certainly behind entities like Thanos and Galactus that serve to keep the multiverse managable...

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-a-Simulation)

I just hope the MCU gets the Russo Brothers to direct the eventual films about the Incursions and the war between the Avengers and The Great Society (aka. The Justice League).

I did read that storyline, and while I liked it at first, eventually I had absolutely no idea what was going on. You had Dr. Doom jumping between universes killing Molecule Man(s) for some reason, but that didn't seem to actually stop any incursions. You had Thanos with Namor and the rest also hopping between universes and destroying them to prevent incursions, but also didn't seem to stop anything, somehow. The Avengers were fighting ... not the Beyonders, so though they were doing this whole epic cosmic war thing, what they were fighting for exactly was not clear, because the goal of the people they were fighting was not clear, especially in regards to however it related to the overarching problem of the incursions, which apparently was set up to destroy all of reality. Dr. Doom apparently started this order of Black Swans or whatever for some reason, but no idea what the point of it was ... Dr. Strange also ended up ... did he create those architect guys the Avengers were fighting? Like I said, it was all super confusing and complicated, and what they were all even trying to accomplish was not clear, since the real conflict to be resolved was I guess the Beyonders wanting to destroy all of reality.

Then, the big downside of spending all that time with all of that other stuff is that it was also never clear exactly what was motivating the Beyonders, because they were never really defined as villains. The original Beyonder was an entire reality from "beyond" the Marvel Universe, that became sentient. But they didn't do as much with the multiverse stuff back then ... the Beyonder seemed basically to be an entire universe, compressed into one sentient being. Complicated, but not as complicated as saying the Beyonders from Hickman's run exist outside of the multiverse. I mean, okay, if you want to say that, but what does that mean, exactly? Where are they? They have their own universe? What is that like? And why do they care about the Marvel multiverse, if they are completely outside of it?

And hey, respect if you have answers for all of this. I'm not really asking for you to supply them, just saying, I read that run, and I'd rather not be so confused when reading a story, even an epic crossover. You know what, I even liked the Battleworld or whatever that was created after the end, and that new Secret Wars period had some good books, too. But ... how did Doom beat the Beyonders? They never showed that, if I recall. How is that not a problem, for it being the climatic battle that resolves the primary conflict of the entire series?

I mean, not to just go on in complaining -- but I will -- but, the whole thing with the two Reeds creating those two arks that somehow survived the end of everything. What? How? How are they just smart enough to somehow create a ship that can survive the end of reality? Or, alternately, if such a thing is possible, how is it that only these two people out of a previously infinite number of universes were the only ones to figure it out?

Nah, I guess it's just a matter of tastes differing, because I'm glad you enjoyed that story, but I kind of hated it by the end, really. Would not be at all interested in seeing the MCU try to recreate it.

[green_garnish]

I have to admit curiosity about which character in this series is really Kang in disguise, or more probably, in drag.

I really can't see it being Owen Wilson, and I wonder what the fan reaction would be to a female Kang. Not that the comic fans are numerous enough to give a damn about. But still, Kang seems like a huge stretch.

[inisideguy]

I have said this before. If they introduce Kang in the MCU as the big bad here I will eat my shirt. I am not saying its not possible. But to me Disney isn't going to run this major villain out in this show.

[green_garnish]

I have said this before. If they introduce Kang in the MCU as the big bad here I will eat my shirt. I am not saying its not possible. But to me Disney isn't going to run this major villain out in this show.

I don't think they'll introduce Kang in this show, but I also don't think Disney or Marvel view Kang as a major villain. He's a good Disney÷ villain, but not this late in a series.

[Immortal Weapon]

I have said this before. If they introduce Kang in the MCU as the big bad here I will eat my shirt. I am not saying its not possible. But to me Disney isn't going to run this major villain out in this show.

If they introduce Kang here it will be as a means to continue the thread in Ant-Man 3.

[DrNewGod]

I have said this before. If they introduce Kang in the MCU as the big bad here I will eat my shirt. I am not saying its not possible. But to me Disney isn't going to run this major villain out in this show.

I'm not offering to eat anything, but rules have changed. The Covid Pandemic has done indescribable violence upon the barriers between Cinema, Social Media, Streaming, and Television.

Those Disney Producers are Shrewd Card Players. I could be wrong, but it would not surprise me in the least to find that Marvel is laying its next Big Teaser in one of its streaming shows. After all, they have us dedicated fans to spread buzz, and that maybe drives everybody else to the trough.

[CosmiComic]

I don't think they'll introduce Kang in this show, but I also don't think Disney or Marvel view Kang as a major villain. He's a good Disney÷ villain, but not this late in a series.

How's he not a major villain?

[Sutekh]

I'm not offering to eat anything, but rules have changed. The Covid Pandemic has done indescribable violence upon the barriers between Cinema, Social Media, Streaming, and Television.

Those Disney Producers are Shrewd Card Players. I could be wrong, but it would not surprise me in the least to find that Marvel is laying its next Big Teaser in one of its streaming shows. After all, they have us dedicated fans to spread buzz, and that maybe drives everybody else to the trough.

Given the nature of Disney, I wouldn't be surprised if the Disney+ shows greenlit are specifically *for* teasing upcoming movie events (or introduce characters, like Monica Rambeau, that will later be in movies). Wandavision, teasing Dr. Strange 2, for instance. Falcon & Winter Soldier testing the waters for a Captain America 4 with Sam carrying the shield. And Loki also seems to be teasing the multiverse angle, which is going to become of greater importance in Dr. Strange 2, and going forward, I'd expect.

Their shows do double duty, servicing both their own storyline and characters, and setting up the next big thing. Every end is a new beginning, it seems.

[inisideguy]

Given the nature of Disney, I wouldn't be surprised if the Disney+ shows greenlit are specifically *for* teasing upcoming movie events (or introduce characters, like Monica Rambeau, that will later be in movies). Wandavision, teasing Dr. Strange 2, for instance. Falcon & Winter Soldier testing the waters for a Captain America 4 with Sam carrying the shield. And Loki also seems to be teasing the multiverse angle, which is going to become of greater importance in Dr. Strange 2, and going forward, I'd expect.

Their shows do double duty, servicing both their own storyline and characters, and setting up the next big thing. Every end is a new beginning, it seems.

I can't argue with this premise. But Monica Rambeau isn't Kang. He is a major bad. But like some others have said its a new world in media. I just don't think they will do this right now. In the future very possible.

[inisideguy]

I don't think they'll introduce Kang in this show, but I also don't think Disney or Marvel view Kang as a major villain. He's a good Disney÷ villain, but not this late in a series.

Yea sorry Kang is a huge bad guy. Its almost like them throwing in doctor doom in a Disney plus show.

[Derek Metaltron]

Yea sorry Kang is a huge bad guy. Its almost like them throwing in doctor doom in a Disney plus show.

I actually want them to give Doom his own Disney Plus show so they can do his origin story properly. (Though I figure he can be introduced elsewhere, maybe with Boris as the evil version of Coulson turning up all over.)

As for Kang, I figure he could make a cameo appearance. F&WS was I believe supposed to have General Ross and Yelena Bolova for a scene recruiting Zemo for the Thunderbolts before that got cut due to the Black Widow delays, so it's not impossible. And I believe all roads are leading to Secret Wars (probably a mix of the 1984 and 2015 versions).

[marvelprince]

I did read that storyline, and while I liked it at first, eventually I had absolutely no idea what was going on. You had Dr. Doom jumping between universes killing Molecule Man(s) for some reason, but that didn't seem to actually stop any incursions. You had Thanos with Namor and the rest also hopping between universes and destroying them to prevent incursions, but also didn't seem to stop anything, somehow. The Avengers were fighting ... not the Beyonders, so though they were doing this whole epic cosmic war thing, what they were fighting for exactly was not clear, because the goal of the people they were fighting was not clear, especially in regards to however it related to the overarching problem of the incursions, which apparently was set up to destroy all of reality. Dr. Doom apparently started this order of Black Swans or whatever for some reason, but no idea what the point of it was ... Dr. Strange also ended up ... did he create those architect guys the Avengers were fighting? Like I said, it was all super confusing and complicated, and what they were all even trying to accomplish was not clear, since the real conflict to be resolved was I guess the Beyonders wanting to destroy all of reality.

Then, the big downside of spending all that time with all of that other stuff is that it was also never clear exactly what was motivating the Beyonders, because they were never really defined as villains. The original Beyonder was an entire reality from "beyond" the Marvel Universe, that became sentient. But they didn't do as much with the multiverse stuff back then ... the Beyonder seemed basically to be an entire universe, compressed into one sentient being. Complicated, but not as complicated as saying the Beyonders from Hickman's run exist outside of the multiverse. I mean, okay, if you want to say that, but what does that mean, exactly? Where are they? They have their own universe? What is that like? And why do they care about the Marvel multiverse, if they are completely outside of it?

And hey, respect if you have answers for all of this. I'm not really asking for you to supply them, just saying, I read that run, and I'd rather not be so confused when reading a story, even an epic crossover. You know what, I even liked the Battleworld or whatever that was created after the end, and that new Secret Wars period had some good books, too. But ... how did Doom beat the Beyonders? They never showed that, if I recall. How is that not a problem, for it being the climatic battle that resolves the primary conflict of the entire series?

I mean, not to just go on in complaining -- but I will -- but, the whole thing with the two Reeds creating those two arks that somehow survived the end of everything. What? How? How are they just smart enough to somehow create a ship that can survive the end of reality? Or, alternately, if such a thing is possible, how is it that only these two people out of a previously infinite number of universes were the only ones to figure it out?

Nah, I guess it's just a matter of tastes differing, because I'm glad you enjoyed that story, but I kind of hated it by the end, really. Would not be at all interested in seeing the MCU try to recreate it.

Hickman does introduce a lot of threads (there are some things I don't really get myself) and while I get the complaint that it's hard to follow the question of "what are they fighting for" is kind of a core concept of the story. As it is, the main Avengers book is really about the failure of the Avengers machine as the book ends with Tony and Steve fighting while all of reality crashes down. So it makes sense that at the end of it its the Fantastic Four (really Reed, who's been all about Everyone Lives from New Avengers 1) to save the day.

I will say I think the story suffered a little due the different events running through at the time (ala inverted Tony and Old Man Cap) that make it harder to keep some of the themes in line.