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  1. #1
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    Default Whatever happened to the Thanagarian Hawkman (pre-New-52)?

    Once DC decided to make all of Katar Hol's Silver Age history with the Justice League instead happened to the Golden Age Hawkman, Carter Hall, and stated that Katar's adventures had only started recently, it seems like all of the adventures of Hawkman we've seen since have been that of the Carter Hall. He rejoined the JSA, got his own series with Kendra Saunders, and showed up in all the major crossover events.

    So where did the Katar Hol go, or for that matter, Shayera Hol, and in what series have they shown up?
    Last edited by Slimybug; 04-05-2021 at 09:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    Once DC decided to make all of Katar Hol's Silver Age history with the Justice League instead happened to the Golden Age Hawkman, Carter Hall, and stated that Katar's adventures had only started recently, it seems like all of the adventures of Hawkman we've seen since have been that of the Carter Hall. He rejoined the JSA, got his own series with Kendra Saunders, and showed up in all the major crossover events.

    So where did the Katar Hol go, or for that matter, Shayera Hol, and in what series have they shown up?
    Currently, Carter Hall is Katar Hol and Katar Hol is Carter Hall, so it doesn't really matter in the end. The most recent Hawkman series explained that Hawkman and Hawkgirl were being reincarnated across time and space and on an infinite number of Earths, so the Earth-2 reincarnated Egyptian "prince" Hawkman and the Thanagarian spacecop Hawkman were the same guy. Thanks to time shenanigans, Carter and Katar were fused into one guy while Shiera Sanders and Shayera Thal were kept seperated by Perpetua in order to keep her from alerting some higher cosmic forces about what she was up to.

    So, Katar Hol is now Carter Hall, and showed up in his full-Hawkworld incarnation in the Venditti/Hitch Hawkman comic. In this comic, he was reunited with Shayera as Carter/Katar/Khufu/Kay-Tar/etc. while Kendra Saunders exists as a separate character and a member of the League.

    And, since Shayera is Hawkwoman and Kendra is Hawkgirl, they've each got their own name to distinguish them from each other, even though they are two aspects of the same woman who started Hawkman on his reincarnation cycle billions of years ago.

    The upside is that Venditti ended that reincarnation cycle, so we don't have to worry about future creators trying to rehash all this stuff again.

    For fans who only want to see Hawkman as a Thanagarian spacecop, you're out of luck, though. It's now just one of his past lives that creators can use if they so choose, but it's not the entirety of his shtick any longer, just as the Golden Age Hawkman is no longer just a reincarnated Egyptian Pharaoh.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Currently, Carter Hall is Katar Hol and Katar Hol is Carter Hall, so it doesn't really matter in the end. The most recent Hawkman series explained that Hawkman and Hawkgirl were being reincarnated across time and space and on an infinite number of Earths, so the Earth-2 reincarnated Egyptian "prince" Hawkman and the Thanagarian spacecop Hawkman were the same guy. Thanks to time shenanigans, Carter and Katar were fused into one guy while Shiera Sanders and Shayera Thal were kept seperated by Perpetua in order to keep her from alerting some higher cosmic forces about what she was up to.

    So, Katar Hol is now Carter Hall, and showed up in his full-Hawkworld incarnation in the Venditti/Hitch Hawkman comic. In this comic, he was reunited with Shayera as Carter/Katar/Khufu/Kay-Tar/etc. while Kendra Saunders exists as a separate character and a member of the League.

    And, since Shayera is Hawkwoman and Kendra is Hawkgirl, they've each got their own name to distinguish them from each other, even though they are two aspects of the same woman who started Hawkman on his reincarnation cycle billions of years ago.

    The upside is that Venditti ended that reincarnation cycle, so we don't have to worry about future creators trying to rehash all this stuff again.

    For fans who only want to see Hawkman as a Thanagarian spacecop, you're out of luck, though. It's now just one of his past lives that creators can use if they so choose, but it's not the entirety of his shtick any longer, just as the Golden Age Hawkman is no longer just a reincarnated Egyptian Pharaoh.
    Sounds like all New 52 stuff. I was wondering where Katar Hol was between his reboot and Flashpoint.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    Once DC decided to make all of Katar Hol's Silver Age history with the Justice League instead happened to the Golden Age Hawkman, Carter Hall, and stated that Katar's adventures had only started recently, it seems like all of the adventures of Hawkman we've seen since have been that of the Carter Hall. He rejoined the JSA, got his own series with Kendra Saunders, and showed up in all the major crossover events.

    So where did the Katar Hol go, or for that matter, Shayera Hol, and in what series have they shown up?
    Basically Katar's older adventures got retconned into being Carter because a few years AFTER Crisis (and after he had a post crisis ongoing even) Hawkworld came out, and it was so successful editorial decided it wasn't JUST a new origin for Katar and Shayera no it was in the PRESENT and span an ongoing off it... and honestly that's pretty much where the entire Hawk Continuity mess started.

    Anyway Post Crisis but pre New 52 Katar had both the Hawkworld Ongoing and a Hawkman ongoing in the late 80s/early 90s, then Zero Hour happened and to try and "clean up" the Hawk Mythos they introduced a HAWKGOD and through a bunch of comic book craziness, Katar, Carter and Shiera ended up merging with the Hawkgod into a new Hawkman which was mostly Katar but also had parts of the others memories and stuff... this just confused everyone even further and soon in the final issue of his ongoing Katar died/let himself get sent into limbo because the fusion was making him go crazy... annnddd that was basically the end of him beyond Carter and Katar's merged bodies basically being used as the base for the ressurected Carter once he was brought back (Hence him going from Blonde to Brown hair). Carter also had Katar's memories for a bit until everyone just kinda forgot about that and that was really it for that version of Katar.

    as for Shayera, she retired, unretired went off to fight in the Rann-Thanagar war and got killed by Blackfire, the end.

    But yeah to answer your question Katar was dead between the mid 90s and Flashpoint, he showed up in some elseworlds (Legend of the Hawkman is a big recommend from me if you want to read a fun Thangarian Hawk story) and whatnot but that was it and when he did it was usually much more inspired by the Pre-Crisis version.
    Last edited by Mojo; 04-06-2021 at 03:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    . . . But yeah to answer your question Katar was dead between the mid 90s and Flashpoint, he showed up in some elseworlds (Legend of the Hawkman is a big recommend from me if you want to read a fun Thangarian Hawk story) and whatnot but that was it and when he did it was usually much more inspired by the Pre-Crisis version.
    Well, not really "dead", but more merged / morphed as a result of Zero Hour: Crisis in Time in 1994.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post




  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Well, not really "dead", but more merged / morphed as a result of Zero Hour: Crisis in Time in 1994.


    I actually liked quite a lot this version of the merged Hawkman. William Messener Loeb's series was vastly underrated. The whole animal avatars thing was pretty good. The Hawkman with inborn powers, was, IMHO, great. Stronger, with wings he could grow at will, a bit of a healing factor, the collective acquired knowledge, the mystic senses, the mix of mediaeval and allien high tech weapons. IMHO, it was the all you can be Hawkman. And visually, especially in the Lee Weeks covers, it was amazing. However, they should not have made him unbalanced by the conflicting many versions inside of him. Those things never end well (and it didn't). Ostrander's version of Katar Hol is still a favorite of mine, and this was an extension of that take.

    Peace

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Well, not really "dead", but more merged / morphed as a result of Zero Hour: Crisis in Time in 1994.
    I mean yes I mentioned that happened, THEN a few years later he died/was sent to Limbo after they did the whole "all the versions of him inside him are unbalancing him" thing at the very end of his solo. And after that all that was left of him was some of his physical features and memories inside of Carter once he came back a few years later after DC decided writers could use Hawkman again (remember Hawkman was literally banned from use by Editorial for a few years due to just how confusing things got, that's why Zuriel exist, because Morrison couldn't use Hawkman like he wanted so he made a Not!Hawkman). So yeah you could say something of Katar remained in the reborn Carter but for all practical intents and purposes Katar Hol was killed off at the end of his 90s solo series and wasn't brought back until the drastically different post Flashpoint version was introduced (who of course... was then killed and replaced by Carter.. again)
    Last edited by Mojo; 04-06-2021 at 03:43 PM.

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