View Poll Results: Which do you prefer ZS Justice League or Infinity War/Endgame?

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  • Zack Snyder’s Justice League

    18 13.33%
  • Avengers Infinity War-Endgame

    117 86.67%
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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post



    Tastes vary. There's also the perception that Hollywood likes "important" stuff above everything else (consider the perception that the Oscars pick stuff that general audiences don't care about). Still, I am curious how much of the Snyder Cut's positive reception was due to it following the theatrical cut and the narrative that Snyder fought the system to see his dream come true? It's unknowable, but I wonder if we'd be so over the moon with it had it gotten to theaters as planned and there was no disaster version to compare it to, if that makes any sense?

    But alternatively, would it be received even better if people had not already seen the basic structure and plot points of the movie?
    If it was everyone's first time seeing Steppenwolf chase the Amazon motherbox, the fight underneath Gotham harbor and Flash superspeeding around.
    The first time seeing Superman side-eyeing Flash in slow motion during the fight at the monument.

    Most of the detracting comments had a lot of "already seen everything important in the movie before".
    While it can be uplifting to see how much better it was from the old one, I think it might have been even better to have seen the entire thing fresh and new with no previous knowledge.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    You got a direct source there?

    Because there seems like a pretty obvious issue with what you are saying happened there.
    It's from the review of the movie from rogerebert.com website. Though I guess his reviews are being done by other people now.

  3. #438
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyusmax View Post
    It's from the review of the movie from rogerebert.com website. Though I guess his reviews are being done by other people now.
    I was going to say...

    Accounting for that he passed years ago, he isn't really "Saying..." anything about films now.

    Never mind a Zack Snyder film.

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    -Read Roger Egbert's review of the Snyder Cut. he said if Scorsese was to watch the cut he would change his mind about comic book films. that been said, Spielberg is entitled to his opinions as I considered him the greatest film maker of all time. Chris Nolan also said he is a fan of the fast and furious saga. nothing wrong with Great directors liking some cooperate made movies that dont extend the minds beyond fun.
    I think you buried the lede pretty dramatically there: If the Snydercut is capable of raising the dead that's a significantly greater subject than whether or not it's a good filme

  5. #440
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    Castle's views are so objective that they transcend life and death. We mere mortals would never understand.

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Castle's views are so objective that they transcend life and death. We mere mortals would never understand.
    I finally understood and quit trying to deal with him

  7. #442
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I love Cameron's stuff a lot (or at least, pre-Avatar stuff), but his "this female lead movie by a female director was not as empowering for women as a film that I, a man, could make" is a bunch of nonsense.
    To be fair, his grandstanding about he did better on something is irrelevant as to whether he's made good films, but it doesn't encourage me to see him as someone who's objective on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    (Completely Serious...)

    The film Flash Gordon was a straight up "Wait, Did He Lose A Bet?..." departure in terms of the visual style of that director up until then. Never mind since then.

    The idea that he even could be a lesser film maker because he directed that film?

    Straight up laughable.
    Sorry, what are you referring to here? The point I was making was having a good sense of visuals or personal style doesn't make a good movie by default.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyusmax View Post
    But alternatively, would it be received even better if people had not already seen the basic structure and plot points of the movie?
    If it was everyone's first time seeing Steppenwolf chase the Amazon motherbox, the fight underneath Gotham harbor and Flash superspeeding around.
    The first time seeing Superman side-eyeing Flash in slow motion during the fight at the monument.

    Most of the detracting comments had a lot of "already seen everything important in the movie before".
    While it can be uplifting to see how much better it was from the old one, I think it might have been even better to have seen the entire thing fresh and new with no previous knowledge.
    Maybe, maybe not. We can't really unlearn stuff, so we'll never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Castle's views are so objective that they transcend life and death. We mere mortals would never understand.
    Friend Castle is one of a kind, if nothing else. Do wish he would go into depth about his views beyond the same rote points (hatred of the MCU, worship of lord and savior Snyder, colorless > color, drama good, humor bad, etc.); it would be interesting to understand why he sees things the way he does and would uplift things to being actual discussion on the art and craft of filmmaking, which is what he's stated he wants.
    Last edited by WebLurker; 04-19-2021 at 07:12 PM.
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  8. #443
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    I kinda got was Cameron was saying. He meant Diana Prince was a fairly typically attractive woman

  9. #444
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    ...

    Sorry, what are you referring to here? The point I was making was having a good sense of visuals or personal style doesn't make a good movie by default.

    ...
    Exactly...

    The director that I mentioned?

    He directed the original version of Get Carter through the film I'll Sleep When I'm Dead.

    The idea that someone who was more equivalent to the band Whitesnake in terms of his visual style is somehow even notable is just kind of hard to take seriously when you compare him to someone along the lines of Hodges or someone like Walter Hill.

  10. #445
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    To be fair, his grandstanding about he did better on something is irrelevant as to whether he's made good films, but it doesn't encourage me to see him as someone who's objective on the subject.
    Oh totally. His classic films are awesome, but he's not infallible or objective

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I kinda got was Cameron was saying. He meant Diana Prince was a fairly typically attractive woman
    But a lot of action movies are filled with typically attractive, macho men as well.

    He also criticized the hero for basically being more "feminine and girly", pretty and loving, and not flawed and tough like Sarah Connor. Jenkins was right to fire back that the Sarah Connor model is not the only model we can have for female heroes. Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are great, but so are the likes of Wonder Woman and Sailor Moon. Hard and damaged heroines aren't the only types of female characters we need. Arguably, Rose from Titanic is also pretty great and she's not a hard action star like Sarah.

  11. #446
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    IW/Endgame combined still feels shorter than Snyder's JL, so it wins for me on that basis.

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Oh totally. His classic films are awesome, but he's not infallible or objective



    But a lot of action movies are filled with typically attractive, macho men as well.

    He also criticized the hero for basically being more "feminine and girly", pretty and loving, and not flawed and tough like Sarah Connor. Jenkins was right to fire back that the Sarah Connor model is not the only model we can have for female heroes. Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are great, but so are the likes of Wonder Woman and Sailor Moon. Hard and damaged heroines aren't the only types of female characters we need. Arguably, Rose from Titanic is also pretty great and she's not a hard action star like Sarah.
    Well, I don't think heroes of either gender should be pigeonholed into either manly or girly

    Plus any woman who's slightly non stereotypical gets bashed for being a "man"

  13. #448
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Well, I don't think heroes of either gender should be pigeonholed into either manly or girly

    Plus any woman who's slightly non stereotypical gets bashed for being a "man"
    Definitely, we need a variety of female characters and heroes (and villains).

    It's just that Cameron fired first, so Jenkins had a good reason to fire back. And her stance wasn't that there isn't room for tougher, "damaged" heroines, just that there shouldn't be any one way to do it.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Definitely, we need a variety of female characters and heroes (and villains).

    It's just that Cameron fired first, so Jenkins had a good reason to fire back. And her stance wasn't that there isn't room for tougher, "damaged" heroines, just that there shouldn't be any one way to do it.
    True. There should be a variety of heroines. Part of the problem is so few appear at once. We still haven't seen her interact with another female superhero yet.

  15. #450
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    -Read Roger Egbert's review of the Snyder Cut. he said if Scorsese was to watch the cut he would change his mind about comic book films. that been said, Spielberg is entitled to his opinions as I considered him the greatest film maker of all time. Chris Nolan also said he is a fan of the fast and furious saga. nothing wrong with Great directors liking some cooperate made movies that dont extend the minds beyond fun.
    Ignoring the obvious resurrection problem here, it’s obvious you have a bias here because if someone bought up say Peter Bradshaw’s review of Endgame, or any other number of Endgame reviews supporting it, you would say that professional critics are not reliable as they just want Disney movies. I’ve seen it happen.

    And if Scorsese didn’t direct Joker for the sole reason that “it turns into a comic book character at the end” I promise you Scorsese would not care for Justice League. At all.

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