Which do you prefer Zack Snyder’s Justice League or Infinity War-Endgame?

[Thezmage]

I remember the conversation pre-BvS release was that they were going to build up Clark's character to be more experienced so he wouldn't need to kill and have better control over property damage. He'd learn from the experience of MOS. The killing of Zod was justifiable and even if the execution for the whole fight was excessive. But while we get lip service to him fighting Doomsday in an abandoned section of the city, he kills/helps kill the villain two more times across the trilogy and WW blows up a dude and part of the building and doesn't give a **** lol. I guess hardly any lessons learned?

Instead Snyder learned to construct increasingly more tenuous reasons for the fighting to take place in abandoned locations

[ZeroBG82]

This theory only works in defence to action -comedy movies. to say his worldview is nihilistic is strange when marvel comics even has far more cynicism than Snyder does.

My comment has nothing whatsoever to do with 'action comedies.' Saving Private Ryan, or The Hurt Locker, for example are grim, bleak, violent films about incredibly dark subjects. But they never venture into nihilism, unless it's to try and say something ABOUT nihilism. Being "dark" or violent doesn't make it cynical, the fact that it has nothing to say about it's darkness and violence except 'Isn't this so cool!' is what makes it nihilistic. Snyder GLORIFIES death and killing, and in his worlds it's how he defines heroism and manhood. The only virtue is murder. That isn't cynical, it's horrific.

If he actually had something to say, to use those tools to project a message that would be one thing. But his message, and this isn't remotely limited to his DC work, is that violence makes you cool, death is awesome, murder is heroism, and only strength and dominance should be viewed as virtues. I don't think Snyder is himself terribly political. From what I've read and seen of him he seems pretty laid back. But his films are nihilism in film form and espouse ideas of civic life and how it operates that are reactionary at best and down right fascist at their logical conclusion.

For somebody who claims to have such faculties for cinema, you seem awfully eager to take everything at face value, instead of looking at shot composition, editing and dialogue choices in a critical way. Snyder TELLS us that the world views Superman differently at the end of BvS, but what he SHOWS us, with his choices, doesn't add up. He's paying lip service to an idea, but he essentially has his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time. And those exact same patterns continue into JL.

It's totally fine to enjoy Snyder's films. They are visually very impressive, absolutely. You are perfectly entitled to prefer them to Marvel films, whatever your reasons. But let go of this ridiculous notion that somehow Snyder fans are the only ones who understand films and Marvel fans are duped simpletons which you continue, time and time again, to put out there.

[CosmiComic]

Instead Snyder learned to construct increasingly more tenuous reasons for the fighting to take place in abandoned locations

I understand he was trying to respond to criticisms of the previous movie, which to me shows he wanted to improve his filmmaking, and that's good. But like you pointed out, his solutions didn't totally make sense. Plus Batman drew doomsday back to Gotham anyway

[The Cool Thatguy]

Instead Snyder learned to construct increasingly more tenuous reasons for the fighting to take place in abandoned locations

He's a fan of Ayn Rand, so he probably thinks "Why should heroes save anyone? People should save themselves!" lol

[CosmiComic]

First and foremost, this is why people call you a troll. The reactionary, strawman, 'I'm the only superior one who appreciates real art' attitude that you throw put that has no basis in reality or film criticism.

Second, my comment has nothing whatsoever to do with 'action comedies.' Saving Private Ryan, or The Hurt Locker, for example are grim, bleak, violent films about incredibly dark subjects. But they never venture into nihilism, unless it's to try and say something ABOUT nihilism. Being "dark" or violent doesn't make it cynical, the fact that it has nothing to say about it's darkness and violence except 'Isn't this so cool!' is what makes it nihilistic. Snyder GLORIFIES death and killing, and in his worlds it's how he defines heroism and manhood. The only virtue is murder. That isn't cynical, it's horrific.

If he actually had something to say, to use those tools to project a message that would be one thing. But his message, and this isn't remotely limited to his DC work, is that violence makes you cool, death is awesome, murder is heroism, and only strength and dominance should be viewed as virtues. I don't think Snyder is himself terribly political. From what I've read and seen of him he seems pretty laid back. But his films are nihilism in film form and espouse ideas of civic life and how it operates that are reactionary at best and down right fascist at their logical conclusion.

For somebody who claims to have such faculties for cinema, you seem awfully eager to take everything at face value, instead of looking at shot composition, editing and dialogue choices in a critical way. Snyder TELLS us that the world views Superman differently at the end of BvS, but what he SHOWS us, with his choices, doesn't add up. He's paying lip service to an idea, but he essentially has his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time. And those exact same patterns continue into JL.

It's totally fine to enjoy Snyder's films. They are visually very impressive, absolutely. You are perfectly entitled to prefer them to Marvel films, whatever your reasons. But let go of this ridiculous notion that somehow Snyder fans are the only ones who understand films and Marvel fans are duped simpletons which you continue, time and time again, to put out there.

Exactly. IMO heroism in many ways is all about overcoming nihilism and actually striving for a greater morality

He's a fan of Ayn Rand, so he probably thinks "Why should heroes save anyone? People should save themselves!" lol

Really? I didn't know that. I thought he just wanted to film the fountainhead

[Thezmage]

I understand he was trying to respond to criticisms of the previous movie, which to me shows he wanted to improve his filmmaking, and that's good. But like you pointed out, his solutions didn't totally make sense. Plus Batman drew doomsday back to Gotham anyway

It seemed to me that he was attempting to evade those criticisms rather than respond to them, which may seem like a semantic distinction. He addressed the text of the complaint (too much collateral damage that the heroes seem to be ambivalent to at best) without actually addressing the nature of the complaints (Heroes are supposed to save people). I was thinking of this when watching the first episode of Invincible the other day: it opens with a fight scene in which the Guardians of the Globe spend almost the entire beginning of the fight playing defensive in order to save and evacuate all of the civilians, and it does a great job of getting you to care about all of these characters in a very short amount of time

[CosmiComic]

It seemed to me that he was attempting to evade those criticisms rather than respond to them, which may seem like a semantic distinction. He addressed the text of the complaint (too much collateral damage that the heroes seem to be ambivalent to at best) without actually addressing the nature of the complaints (Heroes are supposed to save people). I was thinking of this when watching the first episode of Invincible the other day: it opens with a fight scene in which the Guardians of the Globe spend almost the entire beginning of the fight playing defensive in order to save and evacuate all of the civilians, and it does a great job of getting you to care about all of these characters in a very short amount of time

I totally get what you're saying. I feel like having a League of superheroes would allow some heroes to rescue civilians while others can stop or contain the threat. JL kinda did that in the midpoint battle, but then moved to discount Chernobyl later on

[green_garnish]

Honestly even in the real world Batman wouldn't have to kill anyone. And the general sentiment seems to be moving against brutality towards criminals. Idk why Snyder assumes Batman murdering criminals is more realistic.

In the real world Batman would die the first time he tried to use his cape as a hang glider.

[green_garnish]

believe me this will be easier , However as you once said to me X-Men should have more films like captain marvel and I once had to unnecessary explain why good directors of movies -James Cameron or Christopher Nolan would have a hard time working with Kevin Fiege, forgive me if I am not into the good movies fans approach from your pov

It would do you a world of good to question yourself, to wonder for a moment if your current understanding of good film making is accurate. By any professional standard Snyder has no concept of how color works, how characters develop, or how to represent such things on film. I really, really wish you would learn something about what you keep talking about as facts that everyone should understand.

[The Gold Stream]

i dont really like any of the dceu so going with endgame

[CosmiComic]

In the real world Batman would die the first time he tried to use his cape as a hang glider.

Hahaha, true. But even if he had the, ahem, physics, to pursue crime, Idk if he'd outright kill criminals. Much of why many, including I, like him is because he holds back

[CosmiComic]

i dont really like any of the dceu so going with endgame

Not even WW, Aquaman or Shazam?

[The Gold Stream]

Not even WW, Aquaman or Shazam?

i didnt see aquaman but the other two were ok for dceu movies but didnt interest me personally

[Thezmage]

Not even WW, Aquaman or Shazam?

One thing I’ve noticed in conversations online is how the first couple of movies in the DCEU have colored people’s impressions of the others. Most of the people who admit really liking Aquaman and Shazam still talk about it like it’s all Batman V Superman

[CosmiComic]

i didnt see aquaman but the other two were ok for dceu movies but didnt interest me personally

No problem. I actually like most DCEU movies I've watched, even BvS