View Poll Results: Which do you prefer ZS Justice League or Infinity War/Endgame?

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  • Zack Snyder’s Justice League

    19 13.57%
  • Avengers Infinity War-Endgame

    121 86.43%
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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Loki's end was not appropriate. I understand Disney really wants to make Avengers extremely kid/parental friendly because it is their biggest money seller but they could have at least not made Loki defeat into a big humour moment.



    I admit this scene was funny when I was younger and also once swept away by the cinematic crossover events of Avengers but at lot has changed now after almost a decade.

    I don't know if I would call Loki a great villain like other marvel villains Green Goblin or the Sentinels because not once did Loki inspire fear. This carried on to the other films until he supposedly met his end in IW.
    Sentinels were great villians? what's next the aliens in Dark Phoenix were great villians, too?
    Last edited by lowfyr; 04-13-2021 at 11:41 PM.

  2. #197
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    I actually liked the neck snap of Zod because it made Supes have a "I will never kill again" golden age moment that I thought would contrast well with Batman's "no guns, no kill" motif. It would bring tension.

    Then we got BvS ... Ugh ... What a waste.

    IMHO the 2 post MoS Snyder flicks felt like an overly long Watchman riff. Which he already did very well. In fact, he improved the one thing I disliked about the comic ... The "threat" to unite the world. I always thought it should have been a faked new super threat or something. So his change really worked for me.

    But back to the topic ... ZSJL feels like a real slog the 3 times I watched it. Endgame, not so much.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    Sentinels were great villians? what's next the aliens in Dark Phoenix were great villians, too?
    I can only LOL when I see someone tell me the Sentinels and Dark Phoenix from the movies are in the same class. as I said, tells since I am glad there are no factual logical analysis to show this as truth. Because the factual analysis shows, Chris Claremont in the real canon story intentionally made the Sentinels to be physically undefeatable. villains, the heroes could not defeat with brute strengths.

    this is arguably the biggest kind of threat any comic film has ever had, where you cannot take down the villains in a physical match. Again, ground breaking comic book story telling from the 1980s by the great Chris Claremont that Singer brought to life quite well in 2014. Please just stop replying to me with this kind of stuff, you are unnecessarily hurting the MCU by indirectly exposing some of their other weakness compared to other films.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Not all villains need to inspire fear. Loki invoked sympathy, and it was very satisfying to see his arrogance rewarded, heh.
    Every villain should in some form inspire some kind of fear that is why they are called villains. the fear does nor have to be Thanos/Darkseid fear or Joker chaos fear or even anti hero fears like Magneto where you understand where he is coming from.

    I think Loki's invoked sympathy in Thor 1, because his arc built on it. In niceness Loki is actually more sympathetic than Killmonger ever was from Black Panther. but he had none of that trait with Avengers, he was just there for the sake for been there ...about villains who wants to destroy the world.

    No problem with his arrogance getting rewarded but don't make it a huge joke where we are laughing for a long long time and know the movie does not really have any high stakes that makes us fear for the heroes.

    there are many villains who also had arrogance but met an end that was not turned into a huge joke. Green Goblin from Spiderman 1 and Shaw from first class come to mind, heck even we can argue Bane's was another arrogant villain demise was funny in TDKR when Catwoman came out of nowhere and blasted him with the Batmobile but Nolan made it very subtle.
    Last edited by Castle; 04-14-2021 at 05:10 AM.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I can only LOL when I see someone tell me the Sentinels and Dark Phoenix from the movies are in the same class. as I said, tells since I am glad there are no factual logical analysis to show this as truth. Because the factual analysis shows, Chris Claremont in the real canon story intentionally made the Sentinels to be physically undefeatable. villains, the heroes could not defeat with brute strengths.

    this is arguably the biggest kind of threat any comic film has ever had, where you cannot take down the villains in a physical match. Again, ground breaking comic book story telling from the 1980s by the great Chris Claremont that Singer brought to life quite well in 2014. Please just stop replying to me with this kind of stuff, you are unnecessarily hurting the MCU by indirectly exposing some of their other weakness compared to other films.



    Every villain should in some form inspire some kind of fear that is why they are called villains. the fear does nor have to be Thanos/Darkseid fear or Joker chaos fear or even anti hero fears like Magneto where you understand where he is coming from.

    I think Loki's invoked sympathy in Thor 1, because his arc built on it. In niceness Loki is actually more sympathetic than Killmonger ever was from Black Panther. but he had none of that trait with Avengers, he was just there for the sake for been there ...about villains who wants to destroy the world.

    No problem with his arrogance getting rewarded but don't make it a huge joke where we are laughing for a long ling time and know the movie does not really have any high stakes that makes us fear for the heroes.

    there are many villains who also had arrogance but met an end that was not turned into a huge joke. Green Goblin from Spiderman 1 and Shaw from first class come to mind, heck even we can argue Bane's was another arrogant villain demise was funny in TDKR when Catwoman came out of nowhere and blasted him with the Batmobile but Nolan made it very subtle.
    "I can only LOL when I see someone tell me the Sentinels and Dark Phoenix from the movies are in the same class."
    Making someone physically undefeatable is not really difficult. The problem is making a good story out of that.
    And both times the comics were doing a much better job with that.

    "Please just stop replying to me with this kind of stuff, you are unnecessarily hurting the MCU by indirectly exposing some of their other weakness compared to other films."
    Funny you would be the last one to need help to expose the MCU weakness. Other movies sure.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Every villain should in some form inspire some kind of fear that is why they are called villains. the fear does nor have to be Thanos/Darkseid fear or Joker chaos fear or even anti hero fears like Magneto where you understand where he is coming from.

    I think Loki's invoked sympathy in Thor 1, because his arc built on it. In niceness Loki is actually more sympathetic than Killmonger ever was from Black Panther. but he had none of that trait with Avengers, he was just there for the sake for been there ...about villains who wants to destroy the world.

    No problem with his arrogance getting rewarded but don't make it a huge joke where we are laughing for a long long time and know the movie does not really have any high stakes that makes us fear for the heroes.

    there are many villains who also had arrogance but met an end that was not turned into a huge joke. Green Goblin from Spiderman 1 and Shaw from first class come to mind, heck even we can argue Bane's was another arrogant villain demise was funny in TDKR when Catwoman came out of nowhere and blasted him with the Batmobile but Nolan made it very subtle.
    Loki had an army, that provided the fear

    Loki invoked sympathy in Thor, and provided the motivation the team needed to come together as a team.

    It's interesting that you always complain about the MCU using a formula, and yet you say things like 'Every villain should'.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I actually liked the neck snap of Zod because it made Supes have a "I will never kill again" golden age moment that I thought would contrast well with Batman's "no guns, no kill" motif. It would bring tension.

    Then we got BvS ... Ugh ... What a waste.

    IMHO the 2 post MoS Snyder flicks felt like an overly long Watchman riff. Which he already did very well. In fact, he improved the one thing I disliked about the comic ... The "threat" to unite the world. I always thought it should have been a faked new super threat or something. So his change really worked for me.

    But back to the topic ... ZSJL feels like a real slog the 3 times I watched it. Endgame, not so much.
    Funny enough, I didn't support Superman killing because i am fully in the camp of Superman not killing. However, I accepted it thinking that it's something that will lead to his no-killing code.

    But at the beginning of BvS, he smashed a terrorist through a wall when he could easily disarm the guy. And with the way Lois reacted, it looked like something he'd done before in the past.

    Snyder has a thing with people being smashed into walls, WW smashed that terrorist guy's skull into the wall in JLSC, Mera got smashed into a wall, Batman smashed some goon's head into a wall in BvS, the aforementioned Superman incident e.t.c. It's actually quite funny.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...

    I think Loki's invoked sympathy in Thor 1, because his arc built on it. In niceness Loki is actually more sympathetic than Killmonger ever was from Black Panther.

    ....

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Loki had an army, that provided the fear
    .
    Not fear, more fun. Which goes back to the issue of MCU about tone. Avengers at best is an action comedy. there is no fear enough that takes away the fun aspect of the movie. There is a reason even many MCU fans hail Winter Solider as the first adult and maybe only mature comic film in the MCU.


    Loki invoked sympathy in Thor, and provided the motivation the team needed to come together as a team.
    This is thor 1 not Avengers or Infinity Wars that Loki appears in, I have already said and praised for Loki getting a good character arc in Thor 1. he evoked no sympathy in Avengers. in Avengers he is more of a spoiled kid like Dudley from Harry Potter , who I guess need spanking by Hulk acting as his father?

    It's interesting that you always complain about the MCU using a formula, and yet you say things like 'Every villain should'.
    Saying what makes a villain a villain is not the same as supporting a re used formula.
    Last edited by Castle; 04-14-2021 at 06:08 AM.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Too off topic to comment deeply since killmonger had no part of any Avengers/IW story, However I will summarise in a few words by saying Loki in thor 1 was a better villain than Killmonger.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Not fear, more fun. Which goes back to the issue of MCU about tone. Avengers at best is an action comedy. there is no fear enough that takes away the fun aspect of the movie. There is a reason even many MCU fans hail Winter Solider as the first adult and maybe only mature comic film in the MCU.
    Right, right, comic book movies have to be depressing. Got it

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    This is thor 1 not Avengers or Infinity Wars that Loki appears in, I have already said and praised for Loki getting a good character arc in Thor 1. he evoked no sympathy in Avengers. in Avengers he is more of a spoiled kid like Dudley from Harry Potter , who I guess need spanking by Hulk acting as his father?
    Guess you missed the part where Loki and Thor talked, huh? Or 'Sentiment'.

    Honestly, what Hulk did to Loki was no different from what Superman did to Steppenwolf. Only the difference was, Hulk doing that did not end the threat or undermine every other character on the team.

    Basically, Superman made the League pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Saying what makes a villain a villain is not the same as supporting a re used formula.
    "Every villain should in some form inspire some kind of fear that is why they are called villains."

    Rule, formula, six of none half dozen of another.

    And for all the beatings that he took, Loki was pretty successful in bringing his army to earth and overwhelming the heroes.

    He just didn't do it the cliche Game of Thrones way of 'Win, win, win, sudden loss!'

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post

    Honestly, what Hulk did to Loki was no different from what Superman did to Steppenwolf. Only the difference was, Hulk doing that did not end the threat or undermine every other character on the team.

    Basically, Superman made the League pointless.

    '

    I think you missed the part where Superman beating on Steppenwolf did not solve the problem.
    The Justice League still failed and all except Flash died, requiring him to go back in time to fix things.

    And it required Cyborg to interface with the Motherboxes to weaken their bonds before both Superman and Cyborg could even begin to physically separate the boxes.
    So another thing Superman could not do himself and needed the Justice League.

    As an aside, while superman could not separate the boxes by himself, Zeus's lightning did do that in one shot.
    While Darkseid himself required fighting multiple gods at the same time, and he was blocking Zeus's lightning while doing so.
    And this was before he got his Omega beams.

    I agree it would have been better if Darkseid hadn't been beaten quite so badly in the History Lesson. Probably better if his army was somehow defeated so that he had to retreat, but he individually was overpowering.
    But just something to think about for the power levels before you go mocking it over and over.

  12. #207
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    We didn't need the backstory at all. Darkseid getting beaten my Stone Age civilizations and then forgetting where Earth was made him look stupid

    But I wouldn't say Superman made the rest of the League pointless

    I would say I'm mostly in the no-killing camp. If a foe is no longer an immediate threat, they shouldn't be killed.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Every villain should in some form inspire some kind of fear that is why they are called villains.
    In that case, perhaps Snyder needed a refresher on how to make a truly fearful villain?

    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Right, right, comic book movies have to be depressing. Got it

    '
    On the contrary comic films are not badly depressing. I cannot see any comic reader of 20 years thinking these stuff is so depressing. I see it more as many comic fans are adults and they can handle adult themes in comic films without overthinking things.

    the Snyder JL Cut movie, I just see this more as another sort of vibe like Face Off or The Matrix, they only get depressing if you are directly comparing them to MCU because MCU over does their jokes and fun narrative.

    Funny that you are accusing me of championing depressing comic movies when I have many times criticised Lois Lane arc in the JL Cut by saying it was out of character for Lois to be that depressed.

  15. #210
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    I'm more a DC fan but I chose Avengers Endgame, it's a much better film, better paced and in the end ultimately more satisfying.

    With Justice League the theatrical cut is already a mess and the 4-hour cut of Zack Snyder's version didn't help any, sure it took many of the cringy Whedonism's out but then replaced them with countless slow motion drawn out nonsense and choir singing chants everytime Wonder Woman came on screen. Let's just say had the 4-hour cut been given a theatrical release I definitely would NOT have seen it.

    If somehow this can be edited to a manageable 3 hours then let me know otherwise I don't' plan on revisiting the theatrical or the Snyder cut for a long time.

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