View Poll Results: Which do you prefer ZS Justice League or Infinity War/Endgame?

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  • Zack Snyder’s Justice League

    19 13.57%
  • Avengers Infinity War-Endgame

    121 86.43%
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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Plot yes, execution no.

    There's no mistaking Loki for Steppenwolf. More than that, Avengers merely hinted at Thanos, whereas Snyder showed his big bad in action (and getting his ass kicked). When he Avengers fought their alien mooks, it demonstrated their skills/powers. Justice League...not so much

    I imagine that for movies like this, with so many established characters, one guy in charge of a mook army will be standard fair.
    Oh I agree on that. Loki was a real villain, while Steppenwolf was like a generic Phase 1/2 MCU villain, and not much even then

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam West View Post
    But in this case it is. The original 6 Avengers got plenty of character development, either from the Avengers movies, through their appearance in other character movies, or their own titles. By the time Endgame came, we are already invested in these characters. Black Widow death carries much more weight than Superman in BvS because we saw how character developed throughout Avengers and Cap movies.
    I disagree. Most of the characters are generic and not developed

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Oh I agree on that. Loki was a real villain, while Steppenwolf was like a generic Phase 1/2 MCU villain, and not much even then
    I disagree. Stepphenwolf was a great villain

  4. #184
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Most of the characters are generic and not developed
    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Stepphenwolf was a great villain
    I disagree with your disagreeing.

  5. #185
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Most of the characters are generic and not developed
    While I'm not wild about the the arcs of the MCU heroes at all times, this Superman is very underdeveloped and generic.

    The only reasons his death carries any weight exist outside of the film's narrative, not in it. We're supposed to feel sad because it's Superman and he's been big since the 1940s. Nat and Tony's deaths have more weight because we've "known" them (these specific versions) longer.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Most of the characters are generic and not developed
    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Stepphenwolf was a great villain
    I don't follow. of course, in the first Avengers movie, the heroes aren't as developed as they would be by Infinity War. As for Steppenwolf, he was meh, not bad, but not great. What exactly did he have over Loki, whom we saw develop over several films?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    While I'm not wild about the the arcs of the MCU heroes at all times, this Superman is very underdeveloped and generic.

    The only reasons his death carries any weight exist outside of the film's narrative, not in it. We're supposed to feel sad because it's Superman and he's been big since the 1940s. Nat and Tony's deaths have more weight because we've "known" them (these specific versions) longer.
    It annoyed me how little I cared about him dying in BvS. It's Superman, for goodness sake!

  7. #187
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It annoyed me how little I cared about him dying in BvS. It's Superman, for goodness sake!
    I cared more about the loss of Harley's egg sandwich lol.

    I do think the Lois and Martha's grief was well displayed and effective though. It probably helps that Adams and Lane are great actresses

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I cared more about the loss of Harley's egg sandwich lol.

    I do think the Lois and Martha's grief was well displayed and effective though. It probably helps that Adams and Lane are great actresses
    I think the cast did their best, most of the time. But switching from "Why should there be a superman?" to "We mourn Superman!" after one battle gave mood whiplash

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I disagree. Stepphenwolf was a great villain
    Loki's end was not appropriate. I understand Disney really wants to make Avengers extremely kid/parental friendly because it is their biggest money seller but they could have at least not made Loki defeat into a big humour moment.



    I admit this scene was funny when I was younger and also once swept away by the cinematic crossover events of Avengers but at lot has changed now after almost a decade.

    I don't know if I would call Loki a great villain like other marvel villains Green Goblin or the Sentinels because not once did Loki inspire fear. This carried on to the other films until he supposedly met his end in IW.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I cared more about the loss of Harley's egg sandwich lol.

    I do think the Lois and Martha's grief was well displayed and effective though. It probably helps that Adams and Lane are great actresses
    I felt the grief with Lois was a bit too out of character, in fact I said in my first review of the Snyder cut that this was a weak point of the film. Lois Lane would be depressed and maybe even suicidal sometimes but very unlikely she will turn into a mute who cannot function anymore. this is how Amy Adams portrayed her and I feel Snyder was wrong here to characterise Lois as such.

    I prefer how JL animated series handled Lois reacting over Superman's death. Sure Lois was mad and heartbroken but no way did she become a mute. this lois from the cartoon was more likely to go on and live her life to the fullest because it is what Clark would have wanted.



    Amy Adams Lois was okay overall because she is a very expressive actress and that makes her good in her film roles, but she is not in my top 3 Lois Lane's. My number 1 being Terri Hatcher.
    Last edited by Castle; 04-13-2021 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Loki's end was not appropriate. I understand Disney really wants to make Avengers extremely kid/parental friendly because it is their biggest money seller but they could have at least not made Loki defeat into a big humour moment.
    The big planner and schemer who calls himself a god gets taken down by the big, strong simpleton that he thought he could control who just punches him. It's a perfect end.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Loki's end was not appropriate. I understand Disney really wants to make Avengers extremely kid/parental friendly because it is their biggest money seller but they could have at least not made Loki defeat into a big humour moment.



    I admit this scene was funny when I was younger and also once swept away by the cinematic crossover events of Avengers but at lot has changed now after almost a decade.

    I don't know if I would call Loki a great villain like other marvel villains Green Goblin or the Sentinels because not once did Loki inspire fear. This carried on to the other films until he supposedly met his end in IW.
    Not all villains need to inspire fear. Loki invoked sympathy, and it was very satisfying to see his arrogance rewarded, heh.

  13. #193
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    Exactly. How was he supposed to beat Hulk?

  14. #194
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Oh I agree on that. Loki was a real villain, while Steppenwolf was like a generic Phase 1/2 MCU villain, and not much even then
    Even in the Snyder Cut, Steppenwolf is kind of vague. He betrayed Darkseid in some way that is never defined. He wants to get back into his graces. Yes, it's more than the theatrical version but it's not much. The lack of Cyborg is the biggest flaw in the theatrical cut.

    Thanos' motivations are vastly more detailed and superior albeit not exactly standing up to logic.

    The problem with a lot of the MCU movies is the inability to see the forest for the trees. In many of them, there's a lot of character development and real character depth and background but we tend to get frustrated after a while with it so frequently being undercut by the jokes. Also, the sometimes unwillingness to deal with the real downside of the solutions. Yes, Civil War faced the reality that fights between super beings is going to result in tragedy. But, not just one isolated incident. Stuff like that would happen all the time.
    Power with Girl is better.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Even in the Snyder Cut, Steppenwolf is kind of vague. He betrayed Darkseid in some way that is never defined. He wants to get back into his graces. Yes, it's more than the theatrical version but it's not much. The lack of Cyborg is the biggest flaw in the theatrical cut.

    Thanos' motivations are vastly more detailed and superior albeit not exactly standing up to logic.

    The problem with a lot of the MCU movies is the inability to see the forest for the trees. In many of them, there's a lot of character development and real character depth and background but we tend to get frustrated after a while with it so frequently being undercut by the jokes. Also, the sometimes unwillingness to deal with the real downside of the solutions. Yes, Civil War faced the reality that fights between super beings is going to result in tragedy. But, not just one isolated incident. Stuff like that would happen all the time.
    Well, even in movies I liked, such as Ragnarok, some of the humor, even when legit funny, undercut the drama, like when Asgard was being destroyed. So I hope that get's fixed.

    But I'd take that over moping about everything in the Snyderverse.

    Sometimes the problem with the MCU is the development is offscreen. Stuff like Scarlet Witch and Vision's romance, or Professor Hulk arriving, or even Thanos' relationship with Gamora, should have been show on screen and earlier

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