Which do you prefer Zack Snyder’s Justice League or Infinity War-Endgame?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm kinda surprised the whole 'Disappearing on Flash' was a Snyder thing...

[Powerboy]

Try watching it first and see if you get the same reaction.

I get the creepiness of using his speed to basically stare at someone with impunity, sort of like the old "Using invisibility to sneak into the Girls' shower" which is supposed to be funny unless you think too much about it. Granted, he doesn't touch but it is sort of the equivalent of following someone or being a voyeur.

[CosmiComic]

I'm kinda surprised the whole 'Disappearing on Flash' was a Snyder thing...

Yeah. I'm surprised by how much of his characterization was from Snyder, not Whedon

I get the creepiness of using his speed to basically stare at someone with impunity, sort of like the old "Using invisibility to sneak into the Girls' shower" which is supposed to be funny unless you think too much about it. Granted, he doesn't touch but it is sort of the equivalent of following someone or being a voyeur.

It's still an odd choice. Him staring at her weirded me out

[Powerboy]

I'm kinda surprised the whole 'Disappearing on Flash' was a Snyder thing...

Yes, irt surprised me that a lot of that humor WAS Snyder.

[CosmiComic]

Yes, irt surprised me that a lot of that humor WAS Snyder.

I rarely associate Snyder with humor. He seems to be serious most of the time even when there's no obvious reason for it.

Still, at least he tried.

[SiegePerilous02]

Her fans so far, dont seem to have a problem that she was brutal in an r rated dc film, I am guessing they have seen the cartoons.

the mcu has everything to do with here because the thread is about JL Cut/IW Endgame. the people saying she was too violent are a few MCU fans, let me even say huge MCU-Disney fans because not all MCU fans buy into the.... too much violent narrative.

You see it as a fault of WB/DC. I see it as a win because it means they can even push more comic book boundaries after this. something we know IW/Endgame type of films wont do.

Trust me, at least the WW fans on here could not give less of a **** about the MCU if they tried and are first and foremost concerned about her portrayal. The voicing of the concern has nothing to do with MCU. You're the one making it about that, not us.

Wonder Woman fans aren't upset with her being too violent? LOL try actually checking out the WW board here. That is a pretty constant debate amongst the fandom. A lot of WW fans don't want her to be Xena: Warrior Princess.

At this point, the thing they Flanderize Diana into at times is an insult to Xena to be compared to.

[Jack The Tripper]

Very much agreeing with this.

One thing this discussion is missing is the chance for objective POV.

I said Darkseid looked better and I proved it by talking about the VFX style, the cinematography and even referencing many LOTR villains examples. that is what is means to be objective. Those who are saying thanos looks better are not doing the same. to them he is better, because he is just better. there is no substance. it's an empty bottle.

Some here just says thanos looks better because they are fans of IW/Endgame and will always side with MCU no matter what. While there is nothing wrong with this, what they dont understand is, this is the what bias is , that they always say I am doing. when all I do here is just break down all comic book movies to the best of what I see and even hear, many times because I have a background in film.

If I was to say something is better or worse, I just dont say it with no evidence of at least 80% logic.

What is even odd, is that Phase 1 VFX Marvel, would have had Thanos look more like Darkseid because Phase 1 MCU was not overthinking trying too hard to appeal to kids or overly mindful that marvel studios was a small film production warehouse of making movies.

I don't think you're actually being objective about Thanos' VFX though. It's all well and good to imply that Darkseid looks better because he is like an orc but that doesn't mean the vfx is better. One of the many praises given to Infinity War/Endgame is how they managed to make a fully CGI villain seem realistic, both in terms of character and design. If Darkseid is like an orc, Thanos' design is more in line with the Naavi, in that the designers and artists managed to craft something realistic. The way his face moves and they way they managed to fully capture Josh Brolin's personality and movements is no small feat. I think most people would agree that Darkseid didn't manage to get to that level simply because he hasn't had a whole movie to do so, only a couple of scenes.

I would argue that Darkseid (as Uxas) didn't look as well realised as Thanos did in any of his battle sequences, but again, Thanos had the benefit of a whole movie being about him. I guess to me, what's remarkable about Thanos is that he looked realistic. He was shown in different lights and environments throughout the films, which actually showed that there was an insane amount of work put into him - from the opening on the Asgardian ship, to the Collector's collection, to the red scapes of Titan, to the bright daylight of Wakanda we got to see Thanos look real. I don't think Darkseid had this, because we only got to see him in dark lighting - even when he was Uxas the light was pretty muddy, and then on Apokalips it was a kind of brown-orange light.

Honestly, it sounds like your problem is with the design of the characters, not the VFX themselves. If you like Darkseid's design because he is closer to an orc than a real person, then that's cool, but it's not the vfx you have a problem with. And even then there's no point in comparing them, because they are not reaching for the same goal.

Marvel's (and DC's) CGI can definitely be a mixed bag - Black Panther, I'm looking at you - but man, Thanos is brilliantly rendered. Corridor Crew talk about him in detail in this and their video on Endgame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWnRuPZ1Exg&t=70s

[green_garnish]

I don't think you're actually being objective about Thanos' VFX though.

He's doing what he always does, giving his opinion and insisting is fact because Lord of the Rings or some other such nonsense.

What sells Thanos for me is the range of emotion genuinely portrayed throughout the films. He never loses character, he reacts to situations, things impact him on an emotional level and it's clear in the CGI consistently. Darkseid is just archtypical menacing presence. I mean, Sauron was just an eyeball and had more expression than Darkseid.

[Castle]

Trust me, at least the WW fans on here could not give less of a **** about the MCU if they tried and are first and foremost concerned about her portrayal. The voicing of the concern has nothing to do with MCU. You're the one making it about that, not us.



At this point, the thing they Flanderize Diana into at times is an insult to Xena to be compared to.

No I dont think WW fans care about her fighting style in an r rated film, this is the reason the complaint is only made mostly here, by the same people saying favouring IW/Endgameover the JL Cut.

there were no big voice concerns outside if this small MCUvs DCU soap box, because nothing will amount to such as she has been portrayed in other media like this movie.

[tyusmax]

Alright, I've been trying to avoid this topic so as not to have a 20 page back and forth.
But it's starting to bother me.

Why is it ok for MCU heroes to kill but not DCEU?

For the record, I would prefer that superheroes don't kill unless absolutely necessary.
WW blowing up the terrorist and the wall was definitely overkill.
I am ok with Superman killing Zod b/c what are you gonna do with him? He's too powerful to hold anywhere. Also, he was directly threatening to kill civilians at the time.


But over the years, I've heard a constant refrain about how any superheroes (especially Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) should never never kill anyone period.
However, these same people have no problem with MCU characters doing the same thing.


Captain America is supposed to be the moral equivilent of Superman for Marvel.
I just rewatched some of Winter Soldier (one of my favorite MCU movies).
In there he threw multiple people over the side of the ship into the ocean (presumably killing them).
He straight up tossed a grenade at 3 people to kill them. In contrast, Batman in the warehouse fight in BvS everyone always references blocked a grenade at him in desperation, and it happened to roll towards some bad guys.
Are you telling me that a Super Soldier cannot find a way to subdue his normal human enemies without killing them?

Falcon and Black Widow, murdering people with guns.


In Endgame, Hawkeye hunting down and killing Yakuza
In IM3, Tony "terminate with extreme prejudice" and also murdering Extremis.

In IW, Spider-man, who should never ever kill, comes up with a plan to kill the Thanos TK guy that had Dr. Strange captive.

In Falcon and Winter Soldier, Falcon kills like 15 dudes in the first half hour.


I know there are a couple people that says it's all about WW portrayal and nothing else, and that's fine.

But it seems like a large majority are all about the no killing in DCEU and fine with it in MCU.
To me, there seems to be a disconnect on their take on superheroes.
That interpretation says if you are a superhero, then you shouldn't kill, period. It should not matter if they come from DCEU or MCU.

And whenever someone brings this up, they're always like don't compare the two universes. They want to silo off one from the other and not engage on the premise.

So can someone explain to me what the difference is?



I took a great deal of time and effort to craft this post, so I hope I am not offending anyone.

[tyusmax]

Oh, and any arguments about how it's bad and lazy writing to put Superman in situations where he has to kill should also apply to the MCU.

So when Sam murders 15 dudes in helicopters in first half hour of the show, they could have written it otherwise where he did not have to do it.
And on and on with the rest.

[Castle]

He's doing what he always does, giving his opinion and insisting is fact because Lord of the Rings or some other such nonsense.

.

First of all, try not to call something nonsense with no logical back up to why it is nonsense. That is like trying to destroy an evidence that cannot be destroyed.

additionally, saying lord of the rings films revolutionised VFX in movies is pretty much a fact in film and cinema.


https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/goll...i-history.html

[80sbaby]

Alright, I've been trying to avoid this topic so as not to have a 20 page back and forth.
But it's starting to bother me.

Why is it ok for MCU heroes to kill but not DCEU?

For the record, I would prefer that superheroes don't kill unless absolutely necessary.
WW blowing up the terrorist and the wall was definitely overkill.
I am ok with Superman killing Zod b/c what are you gonna do with him? He's too powerful to hold anywhere. Also, he was directly threatening to kill civilians at the time.


But over the years, I've heard a constant refrain about how any superheroes (especially Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) should never never kill anyone period.
However, these same people have no problem with MCU characters doing the same thing.


Captain America is supposed to be the moral equivilent of Superman for Marvel.
I just rewatched some of Winter Soldier (one of my favorite MCU movies).
In there he threw multiple people over the side of the ship into the ocean (presumably killing them).
He straight up tossed a grenade at 3 people to kill them. In contrast, Batman in the warehouse fight in BvS everyone always references blocked a grenade at him in desperation, and it happened to roll towards some bad guys.
Are you telling me that a Super Soldier cannot find a way to subdue his normal human enemies without killing them?

Falcon and Black Widow, murdering people with guns.


In Endgame, Hawkeye hunting down and killing Yakuza
In IM3, Tony "terminate with extreme prejudice" and also murdering Extremis.

In IW, Spider-man, who should never ever kill, comes up with a plan to kill the Thanos TK guy that had Dr. Strange captive.

In Falcon and Winter Soldier, Falcon kills like 15 dudes in the first half hour.


I know there are a couple people that says it's all about WW portrayal and nothing else, and that's fine.

But it seems like a large majority are all about the no killing in DCEU and fine with it in MCU.
To me, there seems to be a disconnect on their take on superheroes.
That interpretation says if you are a superhero, then you shouldn't kill, period. It should not matter if they come from DCEU or MCU.

And whenever someone brings this up, they're always like don't compare the two universes. They want to silo off one from the other and not engage on the premise.

So can someone explain to me what the difference is?



I took a great deal of time and effort to craft this post, so I hope I am not offending anyone.

The easiest answer is that people expect different things from different characters. For example, notice nobody's complaining about Aquaman killing. Mostly because that's not a huge part of his character. Same goes for someone like Iron Man.

For Batman, Superman and even WW, not killing is a pretty HUGE part of their characterizations. So much so that entire story arcs have been devoted to it. Captain America is the moral equivalent to Superman in a lot of ways but he's also a soldier, so isn't expected to have as strict code against killing as Clark does. That doesn't mean people would be okay with him just murking people like the Punisher but in the heat of battle, it's far more acceptable. Same reason people forgive Wonder Woman killing in WW I but think it was too far in Justice League. It's not as simple as "Marvel killing is ok and with DC it's bad." There's levels to this. Hope that helps clarify things a bit.

[CliffHanger2]

Alright, I've been trying to avoid this topic so as not to have a 20 page back and forth.
But it's starting to bother me.

Why is it ok for MCU heroes to kill but not DCEU?

For the record, I would prefer that superheroes don't kill unless absolutely necessary.
WW blowing up the terrorist and the wall was definitely overkill.
I am ok with Superman killing Zod b/c what are you gonna do with him? He's too powerful to hold anywhere. Also, he was directly threatening to kill civilians at the time.


But over the years, I've heard a constant refrain about how any superheroes (especially Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) should never never kill anyone period.
However, these same people have no problem with MCU characters doing the same thing.


Captain America is supposed to be the moral equivilent of Superman for Marvel.
I just rewatched some of Winter Soldier (one of my favorite MCU movies).
In there he threw multiple people over the side of the ship into the ocean (presumably killing them).
He straight up tossed a grenade at 3 people to kill them. In contrast, Batman in the warehouse fight in BvS everyone always references blocked a grenade at him in desperation, and it happened to roll towards some bad guys.
Are you telling me that a Super Soldier cannot find a way to subdue his normal human enemies without killing them?

Falcon and Black Widow, murdering people with guns.


In Endgame, Hawkeye hunting down and killing Yakuza
In IM3, Tony "terminate with extreme prejudice" and also murdering Extremis.

In IW, Spider-man, who should never ever kill, comes up with a plan to kill the Thanos TK guy that had Dr. Strange captive.

In Falcon and Winter Soldier, Falcon kills like 15 dudes in the first half hour.


I know there are a couple people that says it's all about WW portrayal and nothing else, and that's fine.

But it seems like a large majority are all about the no killing in DCEU and fine with it in MCU.
To me, there seems to be a disconnect on their take on superheroes.
That interpretation says if you are a superhero, then you shouldn't kill, period. It should not matter if they come from DCEU or MCU.

And whenever someone brings this up, they're always like don't compare the two universes. They want to silo off one from the other and not engage on the premise.

So can someone explain to me what the difference is?



I took a great deal of time and effort to craft this post, so I hope I am not offending anyone.

Because in their minds DCEU chars are "morally superior" to MCU characters. And "morally superior" heroes would rather let mass murderers break out of jail over and over again to kill boatloads of innocent people. Rather than kill said villains. It's kinda dumb imo but hey.

[80sbaby]

First of all, try not to call something nonsense with no logical back up to why it is nonsense. That is like trying to destroy an evidence that cannot be destroyed.

additionally, saying lord of the rings films revolutionised VFX in movies is pretty much a fact in film and cinema.


https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/goll...i-history.html

And yet you haven't responded to Jack the Triper who gave very clear reasoning as to why he prefers Thanos to Darkseid...

You're also ignoring what fans are saying about WW on her CBR board here.