Which do you prefer Zack Snyder’s Justice League or Infinity War-Endgame?

[green_garnish]

Considering where Snyder wanted to go with the Justice League. Would people here consider ZSJL more comparable to just Infinity War than both IW & EG together?

Not me, just from the standpoint that IW is better written, better acted, better filmed, and better directed than ZSJL was ever intended to be. All of the things that are awful about ZSJL are completely intentional. It's just the vision behind it never realized - perhaps never will - how uninspired the vision is.

[CosmiComic]

Not me, just from the standpoint that IW is better written, better acted, better filmed, and better directed than ZSJL was ever intended to be. All of the things that are awful about ZSJL are completely intentional. It's just the vision behind it never realized - perhaps never will - how uninspired the vision is.

Even Mera's questionable accent was intentional!

[green_garnish]

Not me, just from the standpoint that IW is better written, better acted, better filmed, and better directed than ZSJL was ever intended to be. All of the things that are awful about ZSJL are completely intentional. It's just the vision behind it never realized - perhaps never will - how uninspired the vision is.

It's probably bad form to quote myself, but I'll offer this critique of my own opinion.

Having Thanos use the same technique to get a stone with both Loki and Gamora was weak writing. Even if consistent behavior, a good story should always have unique elements and never repeat itself.

[CosmiComic]

It's probably bad form to quote myself, but I'll offer this critique of my own opinion.

Having Thanos use the same technique to get a stone with both Loki and Gamora was weak writing. Even if consistent behavior, a good story should always have unique elements and never repeat itself.

I'm not quite following you

[green_garnish]

I'm not quite following you

Threatening a sibling with death to reveal the stone.

[CosmiComic]

Threatening a sibling with death to reveal the stone.

Ok. I didn't really see that as a problem. It established what kind of person Thanos is

[green_garnish]

Ok. I didn't really see that as a problem. It established what kind of person Thanos is

It's not a deal breaker, but there are alternative ways to show the kind of person he is without repetition.

[Castle]

Correct, but most of these problems don’t seem to happen now that Ike Perlmutter isn’t part of the decision making process anymore. .

Over the years, it looks as if Perlmutter has gotten too much blame. this man has been gone for a long time but marvel best part was still phase 1. the blame does not fall on Ike alone, Can we really put all the blame on Ike for almost every MCU film becoming action-comedies or having all their movies look the same or using unrealistic CGI when we all know they have more money than Fox in 2014 and Sony in 2004? we cant all blame Ike for this. Can we actually also blame Ike on how Iron Man sequels or thor 3 turned out.

I dont know how much people know this and I find it strange because but I have never seen anyone here mention that Tony Stark had serious daddy issues , however it was swept under the rug or handled in a fluffy sort of way, you easily forget until you dont . in a real writing point, that story would have fitted a bit more with Cybrog's story, not directly but the same sort of complex relationship that are more common in real life. for a person. I sure pay high attention to every detail however as i always said, i dont watch comic films just for action and explosion alone.

Lots of people outside of the fandom criticise George Lucas’ movies outside of the OT (out of which he only directed one movie).

I hardly see Lucas peers criticising him. His biggest detractors where star wars fans. Lucas and his work is very respected in Hollywood.

Regarding MCU’s legacy - people have already tried to make inter connecting universes on screen (emulating the MCU) to mostly bad outcomes. But even then, Lotr and HP came out roughly a quarter of a century after SW began, because those film makers grew up with those movies. I guarantee the same will happen with the MCU. The amount of children and teenagers that have grown up loving this franchise shouldn’t be disregarded, no matter what your opinion on the movies themselves is.

while MCU will indeed get a lot of praise for connecting universe, connected universe films as time has gone by and shown they are more problematic to making movies. the director of Logan, James Mangold has called out how connective universe movies hurts directors.

Also it is stand alone comic films both from Marvel and DC that have shown time and time again to stand the test of time and not to mention the stand alone comic films all have a much higher art value because they are so different from each other.

I will have to disagree with children and teens and ironic you bring this up, this thread is still about IW/Endgame and The Snyder Cut, but can I also add, the Snyder Cut is a more adult oriented film in a very good way for kids and teens too MCU should have never thought much about making kid and teens movies in a way that feels unrealistic..

A lot of kids and teens who like these movies now, in 10 years are going to fall more in love with the the Bryan Singer X-men films or the Sam Raimi marvel movies as long as they still like comic movies because this kids and teens grow up and when they get older, they will want to watch more adult oriented marvel comic films. It just a phase of life, not a DC fan opinion. MCU failed in not knowing how to handled what can be seen as a ''kids movie'' in a way harry potter succeeded spectacularly. You bring up Lucas, but we know part of the reason his prequels were loathed is because star wars fans, between 1977 and 1999, were not even kids and teens anymore and disliked how the prequels was trying too hard to be kid friendly with having a child Anakin and jarjar binks and generic fake looking CGI. the star wars prequels were indeed sort of childish and not in a good way, I remember all the meltdowns in 2002 from fans in attack of the clones when they saw all the colourful lightsabres in the third arc of the films in one shot, these same fans dismissed that scene as a bad lightsabres toy ad.

I bet you there are many teens right now who are watching XMEN TAS on Disney plus and loving it more than all the MCU movies. I think some really need to stop making assumptions that kids and teens are so inlove with this stuff and will never grow out of it. the human mind is just not designed that way.

[green_garnish]

Can we really put all the blame on Ike for almost every MCU film becoming action-comedies or having all their movies look the same or cosnnstnaly using unrealistic CGI

It's hard to see how we can blame anyone for that, since it's not true.

[numberthirty]

...

I bet you there are many teens right now who are watching XMEN TAS on Disney plus and loving it more than all the MCU movies. I think some really need to stop making assumptions that kids and teens are so inlove with this stuff and will never grow out of it. the human mind is just not design that way.

"Some Need To Stop Making Assumptions..." while talking about making a bet that would probably be lost if it could actually be settled.

Yeah, "Some Need To Stop Making Assumptions..."

[CosmiComic]

It's not a deal breaker, but there are alternative ways to show the kind of person he is without repetition.

I guess so.

[WebLurker]

Over the years, it looks as if Perlmutter has gotten too much blame. this man has been gone for a long time but marvel best part was still phase 1. the blame does not fall on Ike alone, Can we really put all the blame on Ike for almost every MCU film becoming action-comedies or having all their movies look the same or using unrealistic CGI when we all know they have more money than Fox in 2014 and Sony in 2004? we cant all blame Ike for this. Can we actually also blame Ike on how Iron Man sequels or thor 3 turned out.

Perlmutter's blame is generally focused on the lack of creative control seen in the early Phase 2 movies and unwillingness to give things a chance (like sidelining the very popular Black Widow from toys and her own movie due to his own biases). Something like Thor: Ragnarok may or may not have been "good," but it was the product of the director's artistic freedom and passes/fails on that, not on Perlmutter's previous mistakes.

I dont know how much people know this and I find it strange because but I have never seen anyone here mention that Tony Stark had serious daddy issues , however it was swept under the rug or handled in a fluffy sort of way, you easily forget until you dont . in a real writing point, that story would have fitted a bit more with Cybrog's story, not directly but the same sort of complex relationship that are more common in real life. for a person.

It was a key part of Iron Man 2, added context to Captain America: Civil War, and was part of the closure in Infinity War (not to mention the indirect addressing by showing him trying to be a better father to his own kid). That's not nothing (and more then we got with the Big Three in the Snyderverse trilogy -- although most anything is, to be fair). Also worth noting is that Iron Man's story arc over the Infinity Saga had way more to do with his struggles with self-destructive tendencies and selfishness, anyways. Why aren't we using that as the starting point for assessing the character writing across the series?

I think some really need to stop making assumptions that kids and teens are so inlove with this stuff and will never grow out of it. the human mind is just not designed that way.

And yet that happens again and again, to the extent that Hollywood has discovered that mining nostalgia is very profitable. Frankly, at this point, you just sound sore that the MCU will probably outlast the Snyderverse and are stuck in the bargain stage of grief. If you don't like the MCU, don't watch it. With DC's upcoming Batman movie, it sounds like there will be darker stuff suited to your tastes anyways, so why waste so much time obsessing over something you can't control?

[lowfyr]

Over the years, it looks as if Perlmutter has gotten too much blame. this man has been gone for a long time but marvel best part was still phase 1. the blame does not fall on Ike alone, Can we really put all the blame on Ike for almost every MCU film becoming action-comedies or having all their movies look the same or using unrealistic CGI when we all know they have more money than Fox in 2014 and Sony in 2004? we cant all blame Ike for this. Can we actually also blame Ike on how Iron Man sequels or thor 3 turned out.

I dont know how much people know this and I find it strange because but I have never seen anyone here mention that Tony Stark had serious daddy issues , however it was swept under the rug or handled in a fluffy sort of way, you easily forget until you dont . in a real writing point, that story would have fitted a bit more with Cybrog's story, not directly but the same sort of complex relationship that are more common in real life. for a person. I sure pay high attention to every detail however as i always said, i dont watch comic films just for action and explosion alone.



I hardly see Lucas peers criticising him. His biggest detractors where star wars fans. Lucas and his work is very respected in Hollywood.




while MCU will indeed get a lot of praise for connecting universe, connected universe films as time has gone by and shown they are more problematic to making movies. the director of Logan, James Mangold has called out how connective universe movies hurts directors.

Also it is stand alone comic films both from Marvel and DC that have shown time and time again to stand the test of time and not to mention the stand alone comic films all have a much higher art value because they are so different from each other.

I will have to disagree with children and teens and ironic you bring this up, this thread is still about IW/Endgame and The Snyder Cut, but can I also add, the Snyder Cut is a more adult oriented film in a very good way for kids and teens too MCU should have never thought much about making kid and teens movies in a way that feels unrealistic..

A lot of kids and teens who like these movies now, in 10 years are going to fall more in love with the the Bryan Singer X-men films or the Sam Raimi marvel movies as long as they still like comic movies because this kids and teens grow up and when they get older, they will want to watch more adult oriented marvel comic films. It just a phase of life, not a DC fan opinion. MCU failed in not knowing how to handled what can be seen as a ''kids movie'' in a way harry potter succeeded spectacularly. You bring up Lucas, but we know part of the reason his prequels were loathed is because star wars fans, between 1977 and 1999, were not even kids and teens anymore and disliked how the prequels was trying too hard to be kid friendly with having a child Anakin and jarjar binks and generic fake looking CGI. the star wars prequels were indeed sort of childish and not in a good way, I remember all the meltdowns in 2002 from fans in attack of the clones when they saw all the colourful lightsabres in the third arc of the films in one shot, these same fans dismissed that scene as a bad lightsabres toy ad.

I bet you there are many teens right now who are watching XMEN TAS on Disney plus and loving it more than all the MCU movies. I think some really need to stop making assumptions that kids and teens are so inlove with this stuff and will never grow out of it. the human mind is just not designed that way.

Tony Starks "daddy issues" as you call them(it was more than that, but whatever) were a key point of his solo movies and the movies he showed up in. If that is "swept under the rug" to you...

And yes Perlmutter were someone who blocked a lot of the descions Feige wanted to make. Black Panther, Black Widow solo movies and the Captain Marvel movie are just some of the things he blocked. And seeing how this movies were received they are sorry they did not remove him sooner.

"using unrealistic CGI" only if Lord of the Rings is unrealistic to you.

[Jack The Tripper]

Over the years, it looks as if Perlmutter has gotten too much blame. this man has been gone for a long time but marvel best part was still phase 1. the blame does not fall on Ike alone, Can we really put all the blame on Ike for almost every MCU film becoming action-comedies or having all their movies look the same or using unrealistic CGI when we all know they have more money than Fox in 2014 and Sony in 2004? we cant all blame Ike for this. Can we actually also blame Ike on how Iron Man sequels or thor 3 turned out.

I dont know how much people know this and I find it strange because but I have never seen anyone here mention that Tony Stark had serious daddy issues , however it was swept under the rug or handled in a fluffy sort of way, you easily forget until you dont . in a real writing point, that story would have fitted a bit more with Cybrog's story, not directly but the same sort of complex relationship that are more common in real life. for a person. I sure pay high attention to every detail however as i always said, i dont watch comic films just for action and explosion alone.



I hardly see Lucas peers criticising him. His biggest detractors where star wars fans. Lucas and his work is very respected in Hollywood.




while MCU will indeed get a lot of praise for connecting universe, connected universe films as time has gone by and shown they are more problematic to making movies. the director of Logan, James Mangold has called out how connective universe movies hurts directors.

Also it is stand alone comic films both from Marvel and DC that have shown time and time again to stand the test of time and not to mention the stand alone comic films all have a much higher art value because they are so different from each other.

I will have to disagree with children and teens and ironic you bring this up, this thread is still about IW/Endgame and The Snyder Cut, but can I also add, the Snyder Cut is a more adult oriented film in a very good way for kids and teens too MCU should have never thought much about making kid and teens movies in a way that feels unrealistic..

A lot of kids and teens who like these movies now, in 10 years are going to fall more in love with the the Bryan Singer X-men films or the Sam Raimi marvel movies as long as they still like comic movies because this kids and teens grow up and when they get older, they will want to watch more adult oriented marvel comic films. It just a phase of life, not a DC fan opinion. MCU failed in not knowing how to handled what can be seen as a ''kids movie'' in a way harry potter succeeded spectacularly. You bring up Lucas, but we know part of the reason his prequels were loathed is because star wars fans, between 1977 and 1999, were not even kids and teens anymore and disliked how the prequels was trying too hard to be kid friendly with having a child Anakin and jarjar binks and generic fake looking CGI. the star wars prequels were indeed sort of childish and not in a good way, I remember all the meltdowns in 2002 from fans in attack of the clones when they saw all the colourful lightsabres in the third arc of the films in one shot, these same fans dismissed that scene as a bad lightsabres toy ad.

I bet you there are many teens right now who are watching XMEN TAS on Disney plus and loving it more than all the MCU movies. I think some really need to stop making assumptions that kids and teens are so inlove with this stuff and will never grow out of it. the human mind is just not designed that way.

Most people don’t find MCU movies something to be blamed for in general seeing as most people who have worked with him have praised Feige. As I said, most creative difference problems happened whilst Perlmutter was in charge, it doesn’t seem like a coincidence.

But you rarely see people praise Lucas outside of the OT (unless they’re his friends like Spielberg.

The problem here is, that I don’t mind people growing up to like other things in the genre, I never have been. But the thing is, people can like both, like myself. I’ve never said that won’t happen, but at the end of the day, a father is not gonna show his 7 year old son Logan or Joker. It’s funny to me though how you can’t understand people liking different types of film. No matter what, the MCU will have serious staying power because like Star Wars, they’re great all ages movies. It’s also funny to me that you criticise the sequel trilogy when at least the first two movies seemed to have a lot of creative control and artistic vision (especially TLJ). Also, surprise surprise, the people who defend the prequel trilogy are those who grew up with it. They aren’t leaving it behind for top tier sci fi like Ex Machina, Blade Runner 2049 etc. That’s not how it works. You can still love other types of films and, in fact, the general public will most likely always prefer films like the MCU.

I love XMen TAS but no, I don’t think a substantial amount of young people today would enjoy it, it hasn’t aged greatly. MCU movies leading up to Endgame became a phenomenon, even the Disney plus shows are showing viral popularity, it’s just wrong to say they won’t have a legacy, whether you like them or not.

[Starter Set]

I'm not a huge fan of most marvel/disney's movies but their impact is hardly a matter even worth discussing.

To take a personal example, two years ago or something i was discussing with a pal of mine and his sister and one of his sister's friend (still with me?) happened to be there too. Two nice gals but about as interested in super hero related stuff as a door is interested in planes. (and all past 35, which is an interesting point to note)

Still, for some reason one of those fine ladies ended up saying something like :"superman? no he's DC, marvel it's like iron man and stuff" in answer of some apparently wrong assumption from her friend.

I was like, what the fck? Some years ago no marvel characters save for Spider-man were in Superman or Batman's league in terms of public recognition and you can be sure as hell that no one outside of comic book fans knew who the fck Iron Man could possibly be.

That's for me the most impressive accomplishment of those not always so good movies. Your grand-ma and her dog know who Ant-man is. That's plain crazy. (well, maybe she doesn't but you see what i mean)

When, man, everything DC has been so damn hard to love since 2011 save for some animated movies. To think that Snyder's movies are one day going to be worshiped at some misunderstood masterpieces is just sad mental masturbation. And that they could eclipse the legacy of the past ten years or whatever of marvel/disney movies? Come on, you know it's impossible but kudos for the efforts, close to 40 pages now of one snyder fan versus the world.

I can appreciate that kind of stubbornness.