Which do you prefer Zack Snyder’s Justice League or Infinity War-Endgame?

[Castle]

For somebody who claims to have such faculties for cinema, you seem awfully eager to take everything at face value, instead of looking at shot composition, editing and dialogue choices in a critical way. Snyder TELLS us that the world views Superman differently at the end of BvS, but what he SHOWS us, with his choices, doesn't add up. He's paying lip service to an idea, but he essentially has his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time. And those exact same patterns continue into JL.

It's totally fine to enjoy Snyder's films. They are visually very impressive, absolutely. You are perfectly entitled to prefer them to Marvel films, whatever your reasons. But let go of this ridiculous notion that somehow Snyder fans are the only ones who understand films and Marvel fans are duped simpletons which you continue, time and time again, to put out there.

And it is because I know the factuality of cinema that I am calling things as they are and most time with right predictions. instead of taking everything at face value. I never bought the face value fact how the media and critics tried to destroy the snyderverse, I was one of the many here that said Snyder would be vindicated and I was right. I never bought the face value that MCU can do r rated movies in the long run and I was right.

Please also seem my post on the spoilers were I have debunked the myth said by only some MCU fans , The Snyder Cut is badly edited or the shot composition are bad. no need to repeat myself. I have done that by film critiquing already. Also if you think the Cut is badly edited, wont that also apply to Infinity Wars? with the many times shot mini random battles the movie had and the non stop messy action with generic comic bookie cinemtotogahy?

Snyder TELLS us that the world views Superman differently at the end of BvS, but what he SHOWS us, with his choices, doesn't add up. He's paying lip service to an idea, but he essentially has his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time. And those exact same patterns continue into JL.

Snyder told us in the film, the world mourned Superman though. this is fact plot point of the movie.

It's totally fine to enjoy Snyder's films. They are visually very impressive, absolutely. You are perfectly entitled to prefer them to Marvel films, whatever your reasons. But let go of this ridiculous notion that somehow Snyder fans are the only ones who understand films and Marvel fans are duped simpletons which you continue, time and time again, to put out there.

Actually it is easy for anyone to enjoy both marvel and dc films but lets not all say marvel movies have any high artistic credibility because they dont and this has been proven many times by just the general art metrics and even from their own directors and other directors who have watched their films. what elevates The Snyder Cut over IW/Endgame is the notion that IW/Engdame lacks any personal real craft, it's pretty much an established formula on reload with IW/Endgame.

The Snyder Cut is a one man craft and that shines over more than IW/Endgame. we cant even say how good or bad the Russos are, at least people can talk about how much they like or hate Snyder and that is art. the faculties of cinema is going to favour the Snyder Cut more than IW/Endgame. I just dont see any other way.

[Killerbee911]

Maybe the Flash will bring us to a new reality where DCEU is good movies and well received!

Using everyone favorite RT

Wonder Woman 93% 83%
Shazam 90% 82%
Harley Quinn 78% 78%

Well obviously Wonder Woman 1984 spoiled that pattern but the reality is DC movies have been well received of late. And two movies that I left off to make my point look better those two movies made 1 billion dollars each in Aquaman and Joker. There is a reason DC has no problem moving on from the Synderverse

[Castle]

Yeah, I agree that Snyder's comments are indicative of why he was a bad choice for the DCEU. However, I think it does explain why he chose to reframe Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc., as killers and why the Snyderverse is more nihilistic without the hope or positivity the other DCEU movies have.



Maybe as time goes on, the influx of more (hopefully consistently good) movies will change the conversation, as the Snyderverse is no longer the driving influence (either in movies tying into it or being made to distance the DCEU from it)? I guess the Snyder Cut and "Restore the Snydervere" stuff might extend the shelf life a bit, but that's not going to last forever.



Of the ones I've seen, Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey are my favorites. Shazam was also pretty good and I thought WW84 was okay (flawed, but I enjoyed it anyways). Didn't like Batman v Superman extended cut (never saw the theatrical version) or Justice League that much, Suicide Squad (extended cut) was okay, but it really suffered from the troubled production, and I never saw Man of Steel, Aquaman, or the Snyder Cut.

I don't think it is that simple.

First of all look at the people saying Snyder was a bad choice for the DCEU. Mostly MCU fans like youself and even MCU action comedies like critics. I think the Cut has shown this is not true and the MCU vs DCU thing was taken too far, WB nearly destroyed their own individual creative thinking. which has never happened before in their history when they also fell for the myth that Snyder was the problem.

Also with the success and high artistic reception of the Snyder Cut, Snyder is not going to go anywhere. WB would not let him go completely. in fact I think they are just starting all over again with clearer heads.

Also this two or 3 films represents so many things going forward.

The Snyder Cut is going to matter more with the future of comic book films. I can see more 6 part mini movie tv on HBO Max for more DC characters, IW/Endgame? what again can be done?

[Castle]

I wouldn't say he re-framed them as killers though, more that he chose odd ways and moments to make them kill. At least with Superman and Wonder Woman, who even in the modern day have killed, even with reluctance. Stuff like killing Zod and putting Wonder Woman in a similar scenario wouldn't be automatically bad for me. It's just the execution (too early for Supes to kill somebody and lack of follow up; WW lethally killing normal humans when they are a threat she can handle without the need to do so)

Batman is the one who is defended as being a killer due to the early Golden Age stuff and other media adaptations. But the Golden Age stuff didn't last that long, isn't regarded by anybody as being the height of Batman comics compared to what came after anyway, and the other media films films are actually a solid reason why we might need a break and more accuracy for a change instead of cranking it up to 11.

A fair criticism of BvS was that Batman should not have killed, you think Snyder got that message ? but has that erased the truth that many now see Ben Affleck as the best Batman, that we still support a spin off potential?

You see what you are doing is highlighting some of the unnecessary problems that should never have been dragged on the highway for WB. Snyder was flawed no doubt, but where the flaws so great that WB felt they needed to get Whedon to Undo them? no chance, no way.

I loved Christian Bale as Batman but I don't even think he could have taken on the leadership role in JL Cut and done a better job than Ben Affleck even with Nolan directing.

I mean to compare both films, realistically leadership, Ben Affleck's Batman in the Snyder Cut was more believable than Chris Evans Captain America. Sndyer makes the themes of war much more convincing than Russos do with IW/Endgame because like Snyder said, he as a story teller is not limited to action-comedies only and it showed a lot. The more you start to compare the 3 films, the more you see how very limited two are and what is strange is, you don't even need to play the R Rating card with Justice League. the card been played is solid cinema handmaid craft.

[Surf]

I've tried to slog through this Snyder cut fast-forwarding helps but the question hit me last night. If you bought a physical of Wheadon League, aren't you due a partial refund? Is there some, (and I'm sure there is) cult of dorks who prefer the Wheadon cut over the Snyder film?

[Castle]

Using everyone favorite RT

Wonder Woman 93% 83%
Shazam 90% 82%
Harley Quinn 78% 78%

Well obviously Wonder Woman 1984 spoiled that pattern but the reality is DC movies have been well received of late. And two movies that I left off to make my point look better those two movies made 1 billion dollars each in Aquaman and Joker. There is a reason DC has no problem moving on from the Synderverse

When was RT everyone's favourites. Was this during Joker, which is likely the most acclaimed comic film for the last 5 years and to mostly many , the best DC film of the 2010s as written about with the love for the adult themes of mental illness, superb acting and great cinematography[/B]

This is the meaning of RT
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/ma...re-1201958988/

When it comes to RT, I rather listen to the Film gurus experts like Martin Scorsese than any MCU or DCU fan. RT. LOL. It's just odd, we now have a movie like the Snyder Cut where comic films has shown it can have a Lord of the Rings Vibe in visual filming and compelling deep personal storylines of fathers and sons like Cyrborg and his father relationship, that will even make Woody Allen jealous and RT is telling us the best comic film there is Black Panther, that has maybe the worst CGI in recent comic book history and not one compelling story arc to the film. I think I will pass with this one. lol

[Killerbee911]

Sigh people come on peddle their weird optimism, There is no high artistic reception of the Synder Cut. And every time we see numbers for it is not impressive, Wonder Woman 1984 was watch more on its opening weekend on HBO max, Wonder Woman 1984 got more people to sign up to HBO max. The Synder cut is the third-highest movie premiere behind of WW84 and King Kong vs Godzilla and stuff like Dune, Mortal Kombat, and Space Jam are coming so that is probably going to fall more. Most of the people watching the Synder cut didn't finish watching it on the opening weekend. Those aren't feelings those are facts.

Man of Steel underperformed, Batman V Superman underperformed, Justice League which was a surprising amount of Synder which we know now bomb, Yeah Whedon screwed it up but the core thing was still synder. DC has no reason to keep Synder around.

Synder Cut is going to matter for the future of comic book movies? You can see a 6 part mini movie? Yeah we call that Wandavision and Falcon and Winter Soldier. Nothing against Synder I am looking forward to Army of the Dead.

[lowfyr]

Except I never said any of this, now you are lieing about me. you will be contradicting yourself by bringing up Saving Private Ryan or the Hurt Lucker, which will lead to even more irony because I once said here that Saving private ryan is the best war film of all time and even made a thread on it. so how are we both coming to that same conclusion on the art of war films? we must have some common art metrics. it's funny that we dont have that with comic films because we should on paper. Spielberg is to Saving Private Ryan as Snyder is to the JL Cut and The Russos????? well.

It seems saving private ryan is fine with you as long as it is not been directly compared to IW/Endgame.

The problem here is you seem to be leaving that art metrics behind because you see this more as a MCU vs DCU fan thing. the fact that you tried to call me a troll because I have said x-men and the punisher have more darkness and cynicism than Snyder. If this was about art, you will not call someone a troll just for bringing up other marvels series that are nihilistic. saying snyder glorifies death? have you seen the punisher? also how many massacres and genocides has xmen been through in marvel? amazing that you bring the troll card when it now concerns not Snyder but marvel itself, just the marvel like The Punisher or X-Men that MCU will never be able to film without dumbing down to nothing more but action-comedies. What Snyder never did with DC. so why is he only nihilistic and not other marvel films/books?




And it is because I know the factuality of cinema that I am calling things as they are and most time with right predictions. instead of taking everything at face value. I never bought the face value fact how the media and critics tried to destroy the snyderverse, I was one of the many here that said Snyder would be vindicated and I was right. I never bought the face value that MCU can do r rated movies in the long run and I was right.

Please also seem my post on the spoilers were I have debunked the myth said by only some MCU fans , The Snyder Cut is badly edited or the shot composition are bad. no need to repeat myself. I have done that by film critiquing already. Also if you think the Cut is badly edited, wont that also apply to Infinity Wars? with the many times shot mini random battles the movie had and the non stop messy action with generic comic bookie cinemtotogahy?






Snyder told us in the film, the world mourned Superman though. this is fact plot point of the movie.


Actually it is easy for anyone to enjoy both marvel and dc films but lets not all say marvel movies have any high artistic credibility because they dont and this has been proven many times by just the general art metrics and even from their own directors and other directors who have watched their films. what elevates The Snyder Cut over IW/Endgame is the notion that IW/Engdame lacks any personal real craft, it's pretty much an established formula on reload with IW/Endgame.

The Snyder Cut is a one man craft and that shines over more than IW/Endgame. we cant even say how good or bad the Russos are, at least people can talk about how much they like or hate Snyder and that is art. the faculties of cinema is going to favour the Snyder Cut more than IW/Endgame. I just dont see any other way.

"never bought the face value that MCU can do r rated movies in the long run and I was right."
So you already watched Deadpool 3? because that is the only way you could make that point by at least waiting until the movie is shown and you have seen it. If not you are not any better than the people who gave Captain Marvel a bad rating on RT without having seen it.

But even if Deadpool 3 is the bloodiest goriest movie that ever got an R Rating and high praise added to that, you would still say "MCU can not do adult movies".

" but lets not all say marvel movies have any high artistic credibility because they don't" again just your opinion.
" that is art" As are the MCU movies.

[Castle]

Man I love Shazam.
It's probably the best DCEU movie to date.
If you think about it, they deal with pretty awful stuff. I mean you got a kid that's being abandon by his own mother because she's depressed in handling him. As a parent myself, that stuff hits pretty hard when I watched it.
There's actual growth of the characters throughout the movie, and by the time the action come, I absolutely care about Billy and his adopted family. Which makes the final battle in the end paid off.

I did not mind Shazam, however is that series was to go on. this is how it will end up.



And what will happen then? will critics freak out again that DC is no longer action-comedy like marvel?

you see, it's about story progression even for Shazam, I really do think films like Shazam and Aquaman DC did it out fear. not because they liked it. I don't think that pattern will last not after the Snyder Cut.

[lowfyr]

When was RT everyone's favourites. Was this during Joker, which is likely the most acclaimed comic film for the last 5 years and to mostly many , the best DC film of the 2010s as written about with the love for the adult themes of mental illness, superb acting and great cinematography[/B]

This is the meaning of RT
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/ma...re-1201958988/

When it comes to RT, I rather listen to the Film gurus experts like Martin Scorsese than any MCU or DCU fan. RT. LOL. It's just odd, we now have a movie like the Snyder Cut where comic films has shown it can have a Lord of the Rings Vibe in visual filming and compelling deep personal storylines of fathers and sons like Cyrborg and his father relationship, that will even make Woody Allen jealous and RT is telling us the best comic film there is Black Panther, that has maybe the worst CGI in recent comic book history and not one compelling story arc to the film. I think I will pass with this one. lol

" Snyder Cut where comic films has shown it can have a Lord of the Rings Vibe in visual filming and compelling deep personal storylines of fathers and sons"
First we already got in movies before and the second one: Gunn did the personal storylines better than Snyder in his two Guardians movies. So if you really believe someone like Allen or better scorsese would be jealous you may be in for a rude surprise.

[lowfyr]

I did not mind Shazam, however is that series was to go on. this is how it will end up.



And what will happen then? will critics freak out again that DC is no longer action-comedy like marvel?

you see, it's about story progression even for Shazam, I really do think films like Shazam and Aquaman DC did it out fear. not because they liked it. I don't think that pattern will last not after the Snyder Cut.

"however is that series was to go on. this is how it will end up" using the Crytall ball again?
"action-comedy like marvel" you know even if that would be true Action-Comedy is not a bad thing in itself.
" story progression" the MCU has that too. But they don't do art, hm?

[CosmiComic]

Using everyone favorite RT

Wonder Woman 93% 83%
Shazam 90% 82%
Harley Quinn 78% 78%

Well obviously Wonder Woman 1984 spoiled that pattern but the reality is DC movies have been well received of late. And two movies that I left off to make my point look better those two movies made 1 billion dollars each in Aquaman and Joker. There is a reason DC has no problem moving on from the Synderverse

Haha, yeah, I was trying to make a joke. But you're right, they're improving. Personally I've never thought any DCEU movie is outright bad, except maybe Suicide Squad. The rest are middling to good.

[Synestra]

Infinity War and Endgame by a landslide. They are the culmination of a decade of films that were carefully laid out and made audiences deeply care about the characters. The overall result of Justice League was from a rushed set of films that did not give enough time to develop the characters, making them feel hollow.

Additionally, we also know that Infinity War and Endgame had a much bigger impact on pop culture, and that includes the Snyder Cut.

"According to data shared to Variety from TVision, which extrapolates viewership data of around 25,000 titles across roughly 5,000 households and 14,000 individuals in the United States, Zack Snyder’s Justice League drew a smaller streaming share than fellow HBO Max offerings Wonder Woman 1984, Judas and the Black Messiah and Godzilla vs. Kong."

It also has a lower critical reception compared to Infinity War and Endgame.

You can attempt to make claims about the artistic value of these movies all you want, but that is a subjective opinion. What is objective is that the MCU has reached a significantly bigger audience and is culturally more significant. Just like the objective numbers in this thread poll.

[Conn Seanery]

I see several people volunteering to be banned stepping forward. Just because you don't like what someone says doesn't mean you get be rude, insulting, condescending, or disrespectful toward them. The next time I feel I have to edit or delete posts for those reasons those people are getting kicked from the site.

[Adam West]

I did not mind Shazam, however is that series was to go on. this is how it will end up.



And what will happen then? will critics freak out again that DC is no longer action-comedy like marvel?

you see, it's about story progression even for Shazam, I really do think films like Shazam and Aquaman DC did it out fear. not because they liked it. I don't think that pattern will last not after the Snyder Cut.

Or he could end up fighting with Black Adam or Mr Mind.
Because you know, not everything have to be about Superman being an idiot.

DC/WB would give trust to filmmakers when they show they can do it. Chris Nolan is perfectly good example. They worship him there and basically give him carte blanche because he showed them he can make coherent movies that tells a good story.
If anything, the lack of trust they showed to Snyder just goes to show that Snyder lack of ability to tell good story. Their biggest mistake was going forward with him when they clearly didn't trust him anymore. Should've taken him off after Man of Steel and let the new guy take over.
Also, I don't understand why Phoenix's Joker was put into the DCEU. Making dark gritty movies isn't DCEU specialty. Logan is far superior in every aspect of movie making than any Snyder DCEU movies.