Does Bruce hate Alan Scott for abandoning Gotham?

[John Venus]

It's possible that Alan branched out and started operating in other cities leaving Gotham primarily to Batman.

Gotham was first mentioned in a Green Lantern comic in 1944's #14. And he moved from Capitol City. The JSA was already based in Gotham.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_Vol_1_14

This is fascinating. So how often and how long was Gotham mentioned to be Alan's home turf in the 40's?

[bat39]

It causes even more questions than answers imo
Either Alan existed as GL before Batman debuted which goes against Earth 2 continuity a bit since Batman was active when Alan moved to Gotham
or
Alan was always active in Gotham but just wasn't as successful there because when you think about it. Gotham in general very rarely acknowledges any heroes besides Batman unintentionally highlighting how bad of a job Alan must have done which can't be far off. The waynes got murdered on his watch,etc

Yeah, that's the point. The problem is that Alan's continuity (and Golden Age continuity in general) is so vague and contradictory, especially given the recent reboots and un-reboots, that its difficult to answer these questions.

Like, if we go by the Rebirth logic of Alan and the JSA 'disappearing' from Earth 0 history decades ago, with all memory of them being wiped out, then it kinda works together. Alan was Gotham's hero back in the 40's, but after he disappeared, people forgot his existence. A couple of generations passed, Gotham became a cesspool of crime and corruption, the Waynes got murdered, and eventually Bruce put on the cowl and became Gotham's 'first' hero, as far as anyone knows.

If JSA history is restored such that everyone remembers the JSA and Alan is still alive and active...well, first of all, they need to explain the chronology. As in, has Alan literally lived for over a century, or was he in some kind of Limbo for a few decades in the middle. If he was in some kind of limbo, then again, that allows Gotham to get messed up in his absence, leading to the existence of Batman.

As far as Earth 2 continuity is concerned, you're right that it raises questions in that Batman and Robin would be operating at the same time as Alan. And the obvious issues of why the cops would need help from a couple of ordinary humans (highly trained no doubt) to deal with the likes of the Joker and Penguin, when Alan can pretty much end crime in Gotham to a great extent through sheer force of will (literally ). I mean, this question comes up anyway in any shared universe setting - but suspension of disbelief is easier when it comes to Superman staying out of Gotham (since he's got Metropolis and a whole world to protect) than when it comes to Green Lantern, Gotham's most powerful resident hero, letting a couple of mere mortals do the heavy lifting.

[John Venus]

I like how Brubaker didn't take the easy route when he had Bruce and Alan interact. It would have been so easy to have Bruce blame Alan for the Wayne deaths. Instead he had them act like grown ups and acknowledge that neither of them can be everywhere at once.

[Digifiend]

If JSA history is restored such that everyone remembers the JSA and Alan is still alive and active...well, first of all, they need to explain the chronology. As in, has Alan literally lived for over a century, or was he in some kind of Limbo for a few decades in the middle. If he was in some kind of limbo, then again, that allows Gotham to get messed up in his absence, leading to the existence of Batman.

Alan has lived for 100 years. He no longer ages having internalised the Starheart. His body isn't really flesh and blood any more - he's basically immortal. Incidentally, he used to be married to a lady called Molly, but she wasn't reintroduced alongside him in Infinite Frontier #0. Presumably she's dead, as otherwise you'd expect the fact he was married to come up when he came out as homosexual. If he's widowed it doesn't really matter that he was married.

It's a far better explanation than Flash and Wildcat - Jay is supposedly kept alive by the Speed Force (which doesn't make sense, as the same should be true of all speedsters i.e. Johnny Quick), and Ted has nine lives which replenish as long as he doesn't die nine times in one day. Being resurrected doesn't de-age him though, so how has old age not taken him out?

[bat39]

Alan has lived for 100 years. He no longer ages having internalised the Starheart. His body isn't really flesh and blood any more - he's basically immortal. Incidentally, he used to be married to a lady called Molly, but she wasn't reintroduced alongside him in Infinite Frontier #0. Presumably she's dead, as otherwise you'd expect the fact he was married to come up when he came out as homosexual. If he's widowed it doesn't really matter that he was married.

It's a far better explanation than Flash and Wildcat - Jay is supposedly kept alive by the Speed Force (which doesn't make sense, as the same should be true of all speedsters i.e. Johnny Quick), and Ted has nine lives which replenish as long as he doesn't die nine times in one day. Being resurrected doesn't de-age him though, so how has old age not taken him out?

I know that Alan being functionally immortal was the explanation for his still looking young in Pre-Flashpoint continuity.

But my point was about how the JSA fits into current continuity. Are the few survivors from the Golden Age literally 100 years old, but kept youthful by various means? Or were they in some kind of Limbo, which is what was implied back in the early Rebirth days, and now restored to the timeline?

Basically, what I'm trying to understand is the chronology of Alan's life and career as Green Lantern. Consider Gotham in 2021. Let's assume Bruce has been Batman for around 15 years, which means he started in 2006. Which means that Thomas and Martha Wayne were killed sometime around 1991.

Now lets look at it from the other end. Alan started out as Green Lantern in 1940. He and the rest of the JSA disappeared from the public eye, presumably in 1951 (as was established back in the 70's stories).

So now we have a gap of around four decades between when Alan stopped being active as GL (or at least, the JSA disbanded) and when the Waynes were murdered. And a gap of five-and-a-half decades between Alan's active career as GL ending and Bruce becoming Batman.

The options are:

1. A return to how things were in Post-COIE continuity. So, according to this, Alan would have lived through those decades, either in Gotham or somewhere else, not ageing because of the Starheart. While he was retired, Gotham became a hellhole, resulting in the murder of the Waynes in 1991. Alan only emerges from retirement at some point after Bruce becomes Batman in 2006. In such a scenario, Alan basically has 'abandoned' Gotham for decades and let things get worse, fuelling the need for Batman.

2. Alan, and the rest of the JSA, literally disappear from the face of the earth (and possibly people's memories) in 1951, existed in some kind of Limbo, and then was restored to the timeline at some point after Bruce became Batman in 2006. When would that be? Well, it could be sometime during the early days of the original JLA (in keeping with classic continuity). Or it could even be 'right now', in 2021 (assuming they are wiping out all post-Golden Age JSA continuity). In this scenario, Alan simply wasn't around on earth (not on Earth 0 anyway) while Gotham went to crap.

This is of course a larger question about the JSA's reintegration into current continuity. Whichever way it goes, it will impact the question of Alan's career in Gotham and what impact it has on the Batman mythos, if any.

[Digifiend]

From what little we've seen, Stargirl's pre-Flashpoint history has been restored, which would mean that the 90s and 2000s JSA stories are as well - she mentioned in Infinite Frontier #0 that she was in the JSA - in New 52, she was in the secondary JLA team instead. Alan Scott also seems to remember the pre-Flashpoint stories... he's aware some heroes are missing (probably the ones who didn't exist in New 52, such as Tomcat/Wildcat III and Cyclone). Jesse Quick's next appearance should be interesting, as it might reveal if her marriage to Hourman is intact. If it is, that would as good as confirm the old stuff is back in continuity.

[John Venus]

Why claim that the Speed Force kept Jay kept young when they could have just said that it hurtled him into the future like it did for Max?

[bat39]

Why claim that the Speed Force kept Jay kept young when they could have just said that it hurtled him into the future like it did for Max?

It kinda makes sense for something that helps people heal faster and manipulate time give someone a kind of immortality.

In any case, when it comes to Jay, it was the Speed Force, but also I believe Ian Karkull's energies. Ditto for the rest of the JSA.

Actually Jay has another possible explanation for his longevity...he and the rest of Keystone City were in Limbo as per the Post-COIE retelling of ''Flash of Two Worlds'', where time passed a lot slower.

[bat39]

Rediscovered this thread due to the other recent thread on this topic.

Coincidentially, I just read The New Golden Age which established Alan as having lived in Gotham back in 1940. And, as per the new JSA timeline which is being established there, the JSA was also around in the 70's.

So, as things stand now, Alan Scott would have been active as Green Lantern as recently as 1976 in Gotham history.

We don't know how things will develop with regards to this JSA timeline, and whether the JSA will have ever 'disappeared' in Earth 0 history or not. But it will have implications for this thread's topic.

[MajorHoy]

[thwhtGuardian]

I seriously need to track that down.

[bat39]

I seriously need to track that down.

Why does this remind me so much of Superman and Batman's first meeting in MOS # 3?

[Triniking1234]

Why does this remind me so much of Superman and Batman's first meeting in MOS # 3?

Needs Bruce threatening to commit suicide.

[The Lucky One]

This topic’s been covered pretty well already, but I’ll just add a couple of quick points…

As noted, the JSA’s ‘70s revival revealed that the reason the JSA retired at the end of the Golden Age was the House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC) demanding the JSA disclose their identities to be cleared as non-Communists. The JSA refused and chose instead to retire. [Then things get dicey with the real-world passage of time, because there’s really no reason most of them wouldn’t have settled down and had kids then, but with the sliding time-scale, Jade and Obsidian and Hourman II and Silver Scarab and all the rest couldn’t have been born until the late ‘90s, so the JSA just retired and… waited 45 years to have kids? It really doesn’t work and probably requires another continuity implant, but that’s another story.]

Alan Brennert wrote a couple of stories exploring Alan-Scott-in-Gotham further:

* In Secret Origins 50, we learn the Reaper’s bloody rampage against Gotham criminals brought Alan out of retirement to stop him. Which he did, completely dominating the Reaper, but a desperate throw of wooden nunchaku knocked Alan out and allowed the Reaper to escape. Realizing Gotham was no longer safe for him, Judson Caspian fled for Europe, where he remained until the events of Batman: Year Two. This closes a plothole in Year Two (why did the Reaper stop his initial killings?) and explains why Alan is a bit leery of Batman when they first meet. Which brings us to…

* “Guardian,” the Batman: Black and White story from Gotham Knights #10. Showing a young Batman’s first meeting with Alan, Bruce is simultaneously awed by Alan’s power and resentful of him for abandoning Gotham. After casually taking Batman back in time half an hour to save some mobsters who’d been killed by their compatriots, Alan reveals why he really abandoned Gotham: because his power ring can do anything. And when he found himself wondering what would happen if he just… wished evil out of the world, he realized he was losing touch with his humanity. So he retired to live as a human, rather than setting himself up as some kind of god.

https://imgur.com/a/PWzpxAz

(Man, Alan Brennert and Jose Luis Garcia Lopez are just so great.)

[magha_regulus]

This topic’s been covered pretty well already, but I’ll just add a couple of quick points…

As noted, the JSA’s ‘70s revival revealed that the reason the JSA retired at the end of the Golden Age was the House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC) demanding the JSA disclose their identities to be cleared as non-Communists. The JSA refused and chose instead to retire. [Then things get dicey with the real-world passage of time, because there’s really no reason most of them wouldn’t have settled down and had kids then, but with the sliding time-scale, Jade and Obsidian and Hourman II and Silver Scarab and all the rest couldn’t have been born until the late ‘90s, so the JSA just retired and… waited 45 years to have kids? It really doesn’t work and probably requires another continuity implant, but that’s another story.]

Alan Brennert wrote a couple of stories exploring Alan-Scott-in-Gotham further:

* In Secret Origins 50, we learn the Reaper’s bloody rampage against Gotham criminals brought Alan out of retirement to stop him. Which he did, completely dominating the Reaper, but a desperate throw of wooden nunchaku knocked Alan out and allowed the Reaper to escape. Realizing Gotham was no longer safe for him, Judson Caspian fled for Europe, where he remained until the events of Batman: Year Two. This closes a plothole in Year Two (why did the Reaper stop his initial killings?) and explains why Alan is a bit leery of Batman when they first meet. Which brings us to…

* “Guardian,” the Batman: Black and White story from Gotham Knights #10. Showing a young Batman’s first meeting with Alan, Bruce is simultaneously awed by Alan’s power and resentful of him for abandoning Gotham. After casually taking Batman back in time half an hour to save some mobsters who’d been killed by their compatriots, Alan reveals why he really abandoned Gotham: because his power ring can do anything. And when he found himself wondering what would happen if he just… wished evil out of the world, he realized he was losing touch with his humanity. So he retired to live as a human, rather than setting himself up as some kind of god.

https://imgur.com/a/PWzpxAz

(Man, Alan Brennert and Jose Luis Garcia Lopez are just so great.)

They really just need to bring back Earth 2