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  1. #1
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    Default Is the mutant resurrection method just cloning?

    I was reading about the events of DOX, POX, HOX & XOS and I’m a bit confused regarding the whole mutant resurrection process. It sounds like it’s nothing close to an actual resurrection as Xavier simply backs up their brain patterns into Cerebro and uploads it into a clone of the deceased character. Wouldn’t this just mean that the character who’s been *resurrected* is a completely different entity from the original? Ie a clone with false memories

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    It's deliberately ambiguous, and will probably be explored later.

    That said, SWORD seems to be setting up the "what about the souls we know objectively exist" thing.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcnewb View Post
    I was reading about the events of DOX, POX, HOX & XOS and I’m a bit confused regarding the whole mutant resurrection process. It sounds like it’s nothing close to an actual resurrection as Xavier simply backs up their brain patterns into Cerebro and uploads it into a clone of the deceased character. Wouldn’t this just mean that the character who’s been *resurrected* is a completely different entity from the original? Ie a clone with false memories
    They might contrive some excuse that transmigration has actually happened at some point, but by the actual description of the process; yes, they're just copies.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Yes, yes it is. That's one of Sinister's things, he clones things even himself when he's not supposed to.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    It's deliberately ambiguous, and will probably be explored later.

    That said, SWORD seems to be setting up the "what about the souls we know objectively exist" thing.
    Hope so. It’s pretty lame that every resurrected character is merely a clone of the original which just ruins it. I hope they don’t bring old Cable back via this method

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    If they were only clones, why killing someone in Otherworld and Arakko, without backup or genetic relationship, irreversibly affects the process.

    Simple answer: They are not simple copies.

  7. #7
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    The implanted memories aren't false. They're specific to the person being resurrected up until the point just before their death.
    (and in cases where they're tampered with, as with Domino, that's deliberate...and yet to be explained)
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    I mean if they are “clones” does that mean that have less value even if there’s only one of them around? They have the same lived experiences (barring things that happens the moment they died), same powers, and same personalities. I much prefer this then having them go up to heaven to drag people back like they did with Kurt a while ago.

  9. #9
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Yes.

    But is any form of resurrection where the character gets a new body "cloning"?
    "Cable was right!"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    If they were only clones, why killing someone in Otherworld and Arakko, without backup or genetic relationship, irreversibly affects the process.

    Simple answer: They are not simple copies.
    They are physical clones at least. As much as they like to make the process of producing the bodies some psuedo-mystical super unique display of "mutant technology" it's just run of the mil cloning.

    But it's Cerebro and the memory download where things seem to get complicated and ambiguous.

    Incomming rambling.

    In a direction revoling around organic and mutant technology, it's a bit suspicious that the one single most important thing in this entire claim of immortality is a device made from classic (albeit alien) technology and seemingly irreplacable with powers of mutants or material made from Krakoa.
    Because for all the impressive explanation on how they work together, the five are relative unimportant in the whole process, since all they do could just be done by classic advanced technology. It's Cerebro which is truely important.

    It's also the thing actualy affected by Otherworld and Arrako. Since dying in those places somehow produces a feedback loop which damages the stored memories on them. Implying the Cerebro is permanently tied to the mutants of Krakoa, unless somehow blocked like in the Vault.

    What makes it further suspicious is that this exact version of Cerebro somehow existed in Moira X's 6th life and the Homo Novissima knew how to use it and for exactly the purpose it is used now.
    It's interesting that we are wondering where the "soul" is in all of this mass cloning of dead mutants, because i think the Librian himself was talking of searching for Cylobel's "soul" in it.

    So how exactly can this Cerebro store "the souls" of mutants and what does this actualy mean for the mutants running around?

    Because if we look at it from a purely memory recording perspective. There are technicaly two versions of all characters running around at all time. Since if the memories of the mutant on cerebro wouldn't count as being source of the person they were recorded from, it would mean the person who is receiving these memories upon being brought back would not count as being the original anymore either.
    Yet they do, so by logic that means the memories stored on Cerebro must count as being the person just as much as the memories in the minds of the people who are running around. Which means there are always two copies. One stored. One active.

    But if there can only ever be ONE soul of a person and Cerebro somehow puts it back into the new person created from the Five, does it mean there are two souls? Or is Cerebro somehow permanently connected to every mutant and allowing the "souls" stored on it to connect to the cloned bodies?

    So if a person is disconnected from Cerebro are they soulless and just collecting memories until reconnected?

    There is clearly more explaining or at least revealing to do.
    Last edited by Grunty; 04-07-2021 at 12:59 PM.

  11. #11
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    I mean yes and no. The genetic makeup is cloned and then the memories / soul of the person it is downloaded into the new husk.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Yes.

    But is any form of resurrection where the character gets a new body "cloning"?
    If we follow that reasoning, Peter Parker is a clone since The Other, Steve Rogers and Black Widow are clones since Secret Empire, Tony Stark is a clone since Slott's Iron Man and and it could go on like this until there was not a single Marvel character that was not a clone.

  13. #13
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Grunty, you're using "soul" logic. Hickman is implying the human essence is just data you can copy and save onto a Cloud-type system and retrieve and download onto a new device after you lost your old one.
    "Cable was right!"

  14. #14
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    If we follow that reasoning, Peter Parker is a clone since The Other, Steve Rogers and Black Widow are clones since Secret Empire, Tony Stark is a clone since Slott's Iron Man and and it could go on like this until there was not a single Marvel character that was not a clone.
    Everyone except Aunt May and Franklin Richards are clones.

    Goku is clone since Baba Yaga gave him a new body after his last one blew up fighting Cell.
    "Cable was right!"

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Grunty, you're using "soul" logic. Hickman is implying the human essence is just data you can copy and save onto a Cloud-type system and retrieve and download onto a new device after you lost your old one.
    Not at all. Kurt during the Crucible issue states that he doesn't know how the soul works in the process.

    All we have are clues, such as the fact that if you die on Amenth or Otherworld, the mystical forces in those places affect your resurrection.

    The only way for there to be a connection between the Gorgon who died on Otherworld and the DNA and memories stored on Krakoa, which are in a completely different dimension and have no scientific or physical link, is for the connection to be mystical in some way.

    Anyway, Way of X probably touches on these topics more.

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