Is the mutant resurrection method just cloning?

[Dcnewb]

I'm saying their clones their OG souls have moved on cause in their RP no mutant is capable/in charge of retrieving it even though I'm sure someone on that island is capable of doing that. Now whether clones have souls is debatable & IDC to really discuss. But back to the original question "are they clones? Answer is...

Sorry for my ignorance but what’s RP?

[Triniking1234]

Resurrection Protocol

[Dcnewb]

Resurrection Protocol

Cheers! I’m guessing that’s the 5 in charge of the process

[Frobisher]

When even did “OG” start just being a shorter way for white people to say “original”?

[jwatson]

I'm saying their clones their OG souls have moved on cause in their RP no mutant is capable/in charge of retrieving it even though I'm sure someone on that island is capable of doing that. Now whether clones have souls is debatable & IDC to really discuss. But back to the original question "are they clones? Answer is...

As of right now, in canon until specifically stated otherwise they are not. According to the marvel celestial being death (the one thanos is so obsessed with), the resurrection protocols and green door were hurting her. Jane gave a speech as valkyrie a woman who can see death and is the very being that ushers dead souls to the after life in the marvel universe, death tells her that the marvel u will not be a cancerverse.

[Journey]

It's been clearly stated that their souls have not moved on but...Understood.

Where what issue?

[Triniking1234]

When even did “OG” start just being a shorter way for white people to say “original”?

Rap music.

10char

[Journey]

When even did “OG” start just being a shorter way for white people to say “original”?

[Digifiend]

Where what issue?

It was in an issue of Valkyrie last year.

[Hulkout42]

When even did “OG” start just being a shorter way for white people to say “original”?

When people got lazier and lazier that full on words and sentences became too much of chore, and it's not just white people.

[Devaishwarya]

Cheers! I’m guessing that’s the 5 in charge of the process

The Resurrection Protocols is the system by which deceased mutants are brought back to life through the workings of the Five, Xavier and Krakoa in tandem.

[Dahaka]

Hello everyone,

This question bothers me as well, and I've come to think that the resurrected mutants cannot be considered as the originals.

To have a better insight on the philosophical and moral implications of the Resurrection Protocols, one might have to put himself in a mutant's place.

If you were part of the X-men squad that went to the Orchis Station to destroy the Mother Mold, and if you were told that you would die, but that a genetic copy of your body would be raised, and that a copy of your memories would be put inside that fresh body, what would you consider ? Would you think that this entity would be YOU ? Would you consider yourself resurrected and ready to resume your life where it stopped ? Or would you consider this entity as a completely different person, someone who you share some memories with ? If I were to jump in that spaceship for that mission, my opinion would go to the latter, and I surely wouldn't consider the one who raises back in Krakoa as me.

(For that line of thought, you have to aknowledge that this person with a genetic copy of your body and a digital copy of your memories would a)not have experienced the event of your death, which in itself is enough to differentiate you two and b)not necessarily have the emotional link to those memories.)

On the other hand, you can flip the hole thing by putting yourself in the place of the resurrected mutant. Imagine yourself waking up one day, freshly hatched from a golden egg. After a few seconds of distress and dizziness, you recognize your body, your face, and your are able to tell that you are indeed yourself, albeit you can't tell exactly how you got here, even though you are able to recall all the past events and choices of your life and claim them as your own. If your subjectivity isn't debatable, would you doubt for even a second that you are yourself ? Would you deny the CONTINUITY between you and the one who died in the space station ? I think not.

BUT, would a resurrected mutant be considered accountable for the acts of the his model who died previously, as there is an interruption in his lifeline ? That's a tough question to answer. Another grim implication of the Resurrection Protocol is that, in the moment of the birth, the cloned body, from the moment it hatches from the egg, can be considered to be sentient in his own right if you regard sentience/consciousness as an epiphenomenon of possessing a human brain. So, from that perspective, we could argue that Professor X erases the minds of new beings by implanting them the copies of the originals mutants, thus denying them their individuality and depriving them of their own destiny. That's very cruel in hindsight.

All this to say that, the biological cessation of existence causes a hiatus in the continuity of a being. Comic books let us fantasize that this hiatus could be temporary, a mere setback, but it's in any case, devastating.

[Rev9]

Short answer yes it is cloning, and the reason that I think so is the 5 only mature the husks by biological or time dilation acceleration, if the soul just transmigrated from one husk to the next there would be no need for Cerebro.Cerebro is there to ensure that the mental maturation(by backing up memory copies of events ) is in step with the biological maturation done by the five.

However I have my own fanfic answer on how this could be a 'maybe not'... I tried to come up with my own theory that works for me in light of Otherworld and Santo and it goes like this .The universe at its center or at the Nexus of the multiverse is a soul generator, at the nucleus there are so many souls generated that death in otherworld means you will be born with a new soul no matter what you try because you died close to the source of life itself.The static or white noise created by the soul charges is too great to pinpoint the 'soul' you went in with to reinsert it back to the body.The further one moves from outworld the weaker the charge, in the normal universe the charge is weak enough for a soul to not be confused by the static and so seek reincarnation or moving about in the afterlife as it chooses.With cloning however which Krakoa is now doing, there is a problem because there is the true spirit created by God or the universe if you will and the artificial spark created by cerebro, both sparks or charges create static and so can confuse the original soul from entering back into the host because of this 'white noise' always increasing. That is why Krakoans themselves make sure as stated in data pages that someone must be pronounced dead or not be read by cerebro for a month or so before cloning begins.While the obvious reason is because they know what they do is cloning so they don't want the ethical dilemma of Krakoans interacting with their own selves causing existential questions, but what if the other 'scientific reason' is they know that unnecessary cloning creates problems because of this very increased 'charge' .It could be even now Charles knows that the higher the charge the harder it is to feed or parse memories into a subject ,with too many clones existing at once the interference increases to the point where 'blind spots' are inevitable a husk comes out not recalling memories or instead experiencing deja vu 'ghost memories' of the other iteration.If you think of it that way then maybe it's not exactly cloning in that the spirit is the same but in this case Cerebro's work is just to speed up mental recall and not have mature husks with infant souls

[Rev9]

Hello everyone,

This question bothers me as well, and I've come to think that the resurrected mutants cannot be considered as the originals.

To have a better insight on the philosophical and moral implications of the Resurrection Protocols, one might have to put himself in a mutant's place.

If you were part of the X-men squad that went to the Orchis Station to destroy the Mother Mold, and if you were told that you would die, but that a genetic copy of your body would be raised, and that a copy of your memories would be put inside that fresh body, what would you consider ? Would you think that this entity would be YOU ? Would you consider yourself resurrected and ready to resume your life where it stopped ? Or would you consider this entity as a completely different person, someone who you share some memories with ? If I were to jump in that spaceship for that mission, my opinion would go to the latter, and I surely wouldn't consider the one who raises back in Krakoa as me.

(For that line of thought, you have to aknowledge that this person with a genetic copy of your body and a digital copy of your memories would a)not have experienced the event of your death, which in itself is enough to differentiate you two and b)not necessarily have the emotional link to those memories.)

On the other hand, you can flip the hole thing by putting yourself in the place of the resurrected mutant. Imagine yourself waking up one day, freshly hatched from a golden egg. After a few seconds of distress and dizziness, you recognize your body, your face, and your are able to tell that you are indeed yourself, albeit you can't tell exactly how you got here, even though you are able to recall all the past events and choices of your life and claim them as your own. If your subjectivity isn't debatable, would you doubt for even a second that you are yourself ? Would you deny the CONTINUITY between you and the one who died in the space station ? I think not.

BUT, would a resurrected mutant be considered accountable for the acts of the his model who died previously, as there is an interruption in his lifeline ? That's a tough question to answer. Another grim implication of the Resurrection Protocol is that, in the moment of the birth, the cloned body, from the moment it hatches from the egg, can be considered to be sentient in his own right if you regard sentience/consciousness as an epiphenomenon of possessing a human brain. So, from that perspective, we could argue that Professor X erases the minds of new beings by implanting them the copies of the originals mutants, thus denying them their individuality and depriving them of their own destiny. That's very cruel in hindsight.

All this to say that, the biological cessation of existence causes a hiatus in the continuity of a being. Comic books let us fantasize that this hiatus could be temporary, a mere setback, but it's in any case, devastating.

Welcome to the thread, you raise great points and one of the reasons why I believe Krakoa hierarchy wants to assiduously avoid mistaken resurrections before confirming true death is either as I said above to avoid mutants having existential dilemmas meeting their doubles which actually will reveal the process for what it is -cloning ,or it has technical implications on the process assuming spirit/soul is the animator and mind is a separate concept in this universe .Think of the triune analogy of body(hardware) ,mind (software) spirit(code writer/programmer)

The last point you raise to me is one that is underscored by highlighting in trial of Magneto that very old copies of Wanda exist , and though she was not resurrected not because of inability but lack of will ,the bigger problem exposed by this tease is how old is this back up? If she were pre dating M-Day then upon resurrection judging her would be arbitrarily pinning an act on her she never did. Then another conundrum is who sets the limit on defining where one's experience forms one's identity.I have seen posters presuming for example that some who did not want her resurrected may claim to resurrect her old version self is robbing her of a fuller experience hence she cannot be the real Wanda, but that is like saying a baby in the womb is only a baby when a doctor deems him/her so , before that point there is no living being.

Krakoa definitely is dicing with very heavy concepts here

[jwatson]

While i don't think they are clones at all, if i play devil's advocate and say that they are, though no one can factually say what a soul is or isn't, then i guess aside from a handful of mutants like Storm, Bishop, Emma, and Iceman, the rest of the x-men for the most part are just clones, if peeps okay with that who am i to pee on their head canon.