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  1. #1
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Default Would the Ultraverse Heroes have been better of at DC?

    Inspired in the thread Would the Charlton Action Heroes have been better of at Marvel? from Riv86672 in the Marvel board.

    Context:

    In the 90s, after the birth of Image comics, several editorial tried to create their own universe to compite against marvel and DC. Among these newcomer, there was Malibu comics, who created the contained line under the banner of the Ultraverse. The Ultraverse rose and and fell quickly in attention and impact but it was big enough to attract the attention of DC. DC had showed interest in buying the Ultraverse (nothing new, they had buying another companies before and integrating their characters), but Marvel, afraid of how big DC would grow with the input of sales from the ultraverse, bought out Malibu in November 1994. After that, Marvel pushed the characters for a time, before progressively dismatled the Ultraverse titles and send the characters to a vault. After the publication of Ultraverse: future Shock, the only mention to Ultraverse characters and concepts has been the use of the title "Exiles" for a x-men spin-off series and a tangential/debatable adaptation cameo of one character in Thor:Ragnarok.

    The motives to the reluctance of Marvel to use the characters again is a mystery. Either for problems of property rights with the authors; the dark circunstances about one of these authors, than would be motive of scrutiny; or even, simple disinterest. After all, Marvel have a lot of properties to explote in their own vault and have no need of them.

    So, if you know who the characters of the Ultraverse were, I ask you: would they had been trated better in DC? Would have they had a better luck? Would they still be around, even under minimal roles? Would have they reach the same level of recognization as Captain Atom, Blue Bettle, Shazam (Captain Marvel, dammit!), Plastic man, Freedom Fighters, who also came from other editorials before being integrated in DC? Or would they be postergated as the Milestone and Wildstorm characters before being reused again?

    I want your opinions.
    "Two truths can't make a lie?"
    "If power corrupts, and knowledge is power, therefor knowledge corrupts"

  2. #2

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    They'd probably join Wildstorm and Milestone comics. They switch between in the DC Universe and being seperate but atleast they would be used.

    Grant Morrison would've given them their own Earth during Multiversity.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    We'd have gotten a Prime vs Shazam comic.

    Mantra might have met Zatanna. Sadly at the time, Zatanaa wasn't really used nor a lot of their magic. Maybe Fate would have been used.

    Prototype might have been a success if done well. I can't think of a good armor guy in DC. There is probably an obvious one I'm missing.

    I could see Sludge has a new Batman villain.

    I could see Ghoul in Gotham too.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    I think a swap between DC and Marvel of the Wildstorm characters for the Ultraverse characters would be beneficial to both groups of characters. Jim Lee was obviously a Marvel fan and the Wildstorm characters were much better suited to the kinds of stories Marvel was telling at the time. Meanwhile, the Ultraverse characters were steered by a lot of writers/creators who were longtime comic creators, like Bob Layton and Steve Engelhart, whose styles were probably just old-school enough that the characters would be better suited to DC's broader sensibilities than the Wildstorm characters.

  5. #5
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    If property rights is the reason Marvel aren't using them, then no, as DC would've had the same problem.

    If they can use them and Marvel just don't want to, then yes, DC would've used them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    Prototype might have been a success if done well. I can't think of a good armor guy in DC. There is probably an obvious one I'm missing.
    John Henry Irons, aka Steel, was being regularly used in the DCU to much acclaim at the time. But I can't imagine that 90's-DC would have done with Prototype what Marvel did (retconned Jimmy Ruiz as Prototype out of existence and replaced him with a character that was part of Ruiz's backstory).

    Come to think of it, after Marvel bought the Ultraverse/Malibu in general and did that "Black September" event to integrate it into their megaverse, more than a few pre-Marvel-ownership Ultraverse characters got retconned out of existence, like Hardcase and Contrary (from Ultraforce). What exactly was the deal with that? (And all this before Didio used the New 52 to retcon out Wally West, Cassandra Cain, the JSA, etc.)

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    Mighty Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    I Miss Prime...

  8. #8
    Mighty Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    If property rights is the reason Marvel aren't using them, then no, as DC would've had the same problem.

    If they can use them and Marvel just don't want to, then yes, DC would've used them.
    Maybe DC would have used a real Lawyer to negotiate the rights.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazijoe View Post
    Maybe DC would have used a real Lawyer to negotiate the rights.
    McDuffie would disagree if he was still around. DC only wanted to use Static and never made that clear and wasted a LOT of money in legal talk.


    Also some of the Ultraverse guys are no longer with us and one is in prison-Gerard Jones.

  10. #10
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    I.D. All Of The DC Publishers/Imprints Who Started Off With Their Own Universe

    -National
    -All-American
    -Fawcett
    -Charlton
    -Milestone
    -Wildstorm
    -Prize
    -Quality Comics
    -kind of St. John, as they published Kubert's TOR first.
    -Nedor (renewed by Popular Library...purchased by WB)
    -Thrilling Publications (renewed by Popular Library...purchased by WB)

    Why would Ultraverse fair any better than DC's other acquisitions?

  11. #11
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    They'd probably join Wildstorm and Milestone comics. They switch between in the DC Universe and being seperate but atleast they would be used.
    Yes, it its most probable.

    Grant Morrison would've given them their own Earth during Multiversity.
    In some way, Morrison did that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    John Henry Irons, aka Steel, was being regularly used in the DCU to much acclaim at the time. But I can't imagine that 90's-DC would have done with Prototype what Marvel did (retconned Jimmy Ruiz as Prototype out of existence and replaced him with a character that was part of Ruiz's backstory).

    Come to think of it, after Marvel bought the Ultraverse/Malibu in general and did that "Black September" event to integrate it into their megaverse, more than a few pre-Marvel-ownership Ultraverse characters got retconned out of existence, like Hardcase and Contrary (from Ultraforce). What exactly was the deal with that? (And all this before Didio used the New 52 to retcon out Wally West, Cassandra Cain, the JSA, etc.)
    Honestly , I suppose they wanted to rid of characters who where to much similar to their own characters. The erasing of Jimmy Ruiz may it was more because at that time, there was a teenage Iron Man in the books and Marvel didn't wanted two armored teenagers at the same time from different universes.

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I.D. All Of The DC Publishers/Imprints Who Started Off With Their Own Universe

    -National
    -All-American
    -Fawcett
    -Charlton
    -Milestone
    -Wildstorm
    -Prize
    -Quality Comics
    -kind of St. John, as they published Kubert's TOR first.
    -Nedor (renewed by Popular Library...purchased by WB)
    -Thrilling Publications (renewed by Popular Library...purchased by WB)

    Why would Ultraverse fair any better than DC's other acquisitions?
    I am the first ot admit than DC had not always the best management of other editorials properties, but in both big majors neither of them had a good grasp of other minor editorials characters. However you had to admit than at difference of marvel, DC pushed for acquered properties with better succes even if often only a pair of those characters appear once and again and several had become iconic in the DC landscape. Blue Bettle, Captain Atom, now Peacemaker, Plastic man, Black Adam and now are a new push for the Wildstorm characters. DC is always trying to push those propierties, in few numbers and not always successfully but they try.

    Marvel on the other side, had a better management of licenced propierties (to even tried to integrated them to it universe, a with ROM), but its management of acquiered propierties seems lacking interest. Only characters from others editorials integrated to Marvel I can thought are Angela and Miracleman and its use is not very prominent. Angela mostly, but beyond that, nothing.

    But I don't want to extend on that. Both editorials have their share of sins and achievements, but I would not like to see this in an steril Marvel vs DC fight. The idea is to play with the concept of to see those characters in a different landscape.


    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    We'd have gotten a Prime vs Shazam comic.

    Mantra might have met Zatanna. Sadly at the time, Zatanaa wasn't really used nor a lot of their magic. Maybe Fate would have been used.

    Prototype might have been a success if done well. I can't think of a good armor guy in DC. There is probably an obvious one I'm missing.

    I could see Sludge has a new Batman villain.

    I could see Ghoul in Gotham too.
    This is what I was talking about. And yes, Ghoul and Slugde could had worked in Gotham and Sludge even clashing against Swamp thing.
    "Two truths can't make a lie?"
    "If power corrupts, and knowledge is power, therefor knowledge corrupts"

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    I'd probably have enjoyed a lot the cross-overs with Earth U.

    Peace

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Iíve always felt that Marvel was a more cohesive universe then DC. DC always felt like a hodgepodge of disparate characters sown together to create a universe. While Marvel at its core seems like ( and is) the result of a small group of people working together to create a universe with a clear singular voice. In short you can tell a lot of DC characters werenít created to exist in a shared universe.

    Oddly, this makes DC better at incorporating characters into their universe.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    ...

    I am the first ot admit than DC had not always the best management of other editorials properties, but in both big majors neither of them had a good grasp of other minor editorials characters. However you had to admit than at difference of marvel, DC pushed for acquered properties with better succes even if often only a pair of those characters appear once and again and several had become iconic in the DC landscape. Blue Bettle, Captain Atom, now Peacemaker, Plastic man, Black Adam and now are a new push for the Wildstorm characters. DC is always trying to push those propierties, in few numbers and not always successfully but they try.

    Marvel on the other side, had a better management of licenced propierties (to even tried to integrated them to it universe, a with ROM), but its management of acquiered propierties seems lacking interest. Only characters from others editorials integrated to Marvel I can thought are Angela and Miracleman and its use is not very prominent. Angela mostly, but beyond that, nothing.

    But I don't want to extend on that. Both editorials have their share of sins and achievements, but I would not like to see this in an steril Marvel vs DC fight. The idea is to play with the concept of to see those characters in a different landscape.

    ...
    If DC had allowed Moore to use Charlton characters in The Watchmen, they would be Who's Who today instead of Who's That?

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think DC would likely have used at least some of the Malibu roster better than what Marvel has. Which is a really low bar, since using them *at all* would be more than what Marvel has ended up doing.

    My memory of Malibu is pretty thin; that was a long time ago and I never got into those titles like some folks did (I vaguely remember a cartoon?). But I can see DC buying the IP's and putting Prime on a shelf, along with any other ultraverse character who was too close to an established DC hero. But there would've been others, more unique in the DC landscape, capable of carving out a niche and getting *some* degree of attention and effort.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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