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  1. #16
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Forget that trash story alongside WW killing Max Lord.
    DC won't let us
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few necks." - Wonder Woman, probably

  2. #17
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    They really flanderized her with wiping Catwoman and Top. Especially annoying, IMO, is that they never really seemed to explore her feelings about what she did.
    She felt bad enough about it from her interaction with Wally and Selina, especially the latter where she seemed to be involving herself in Selina's life to make up for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Not. Necessarily. Tim Drake got his backstory back and his father died in Identity Crisis. Infinite Crisis maybe gone with Max Lord alive and Bludhaven surviving but who knows with I.D.

    Hey now that I remember, where's Captain Boomerang and Jean Loring these days?
    Boomerbutt's a free agent.

    Jean Loring is just Ray Palmer's ex-wife now, I think.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    And Batmanís memory?

    And thatís just memory erasure, the real crime was altering Dr Light, Catwoman, and the Topís personalities. Erasing a small handful of memories of criminals I canít get upset about but trying to alter their entire personalities is a horse of a different color. Wasnít just Doctor Light but Catwoman and The Top, too
    Dr. Light deserved it, Batman didn't and didn't Catwoman ask her at one point for a mid wipe?

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that part of the rationale was that it explained why Zatanna wasn't more powerful in the DCU. She went a little too far and checked herself ever since.

    I don't really know if she has to "pay for" this in any concrete sense, but I do like that story idea laid out in the OP. It engages the characters in an interesting way. Not a huge fan of adding kids to the heroes, but this one is at least interesting.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Whether she paid never troubles me as I refuse to accept Identity Crisis as canon, and instead think of it as a writer's very disturbing wet dream, bad writing, and something DC's (all-too-often) retcons will eventually wipe away.
    Much like HIC.....
    AKA FlashFreak
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    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), The Atom (Ray Palmer) , Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Iron Fist, & Doctor Strange.

    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, & The Flash.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Dr. Light deserved it, Batman didn't and didn't Catwoman ask her at one point for a mid wipe?
    Dr. Light deserved to die or to go to jail, he didn't deserve to get his personality overwritten.

    And Catwoman very explicitly did not ask for Zatanna to brainwash her into being good ("Nrut morf nialliv ot oreh") https://annotated-dc.tumblr.com/post...-was-among-the

    And I didn't see it anywhere but I definitely remember the implication being that they did this explicitly to give Batman a girlfriend which is very gross.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Dr. Light deserved to die or to go to jail, he didn't deserve to get his personality overwritten.

    And Catwoman very explicitly did not ask for Zatanna to brainwash her into being good ("Nrut morf nialliv ot oreh") https://annotated-dc.tumblr.com/post...-was-among-the

    And I didn't see it anywhere but I definitely remember the implication being that they did this explicitly to give Batman a girlfriend which is very gross.
    Absurd shit. That was never the case. I've heard this from a lot of people but that's absolutely false.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    Absurd shit. That was never the case. I've heard this from a lot of people but that's absolutely false.
    Then why did they do it?

    (asking genuinely)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Then why did they do it?

    (asking genuinely)
    To show that Batman is morally superior to everyone else. That he is incorruptible. That he's the underdog and everyone should be cheering for him.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    Absurd shit. That was never the case. I've heard this from a lot of people but that's absolutely false.
    Pretty sure that's what they said in interviews at the time. And even without that it's gross and a violation

  11. #26
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    Can't buck up an absurd claim so say it happened in an interview.
    Even if it's true, it didn't happen in the comics.

    BTW what would be the logic behind giving Batman a girlfriend?
    How did they predict Batman would stick his dick in a villain whom he considered to be one of his most aggressive enemies?
    Won't the sudden change in her personality be counterproductive to the secrecy?

  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that part of the rationale was that it explained why Zatanna wasn't more powerful in the DCU. She went a little too far and checked herself ever since.

    I don't really know if she has to "pay for" this in any concrete sense, but I do like that story idea laid out in the OP. It engages the characters in an interesting way. Not a huge fan of adding kids to the heroes, but this one is at least interesting.
    Reminds me of Wanda with Westview in WandaVision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    To show that Batman is morally superior to everyone else. That he is incorruptible. That he's the underdog and everyone should be cheering for him.
    I thought it retroactively explained Batman's sudden trust issues and paranoia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    Can't buck up an absurd claim so say it happened in an interview.
    Even if it's true, it didn't happen in the comics.

    BTW what would be the logic behind giving Batman a girlfriend?
    How did they predict Batman would stick his dick in a villain whom he considered to be one of his most aggressive enemies?
    Won't the sudden change in her personality be counterproductive to the secrecy?
    In context I think this was when Batman was really into Catwoman and felt like she could really turn her life around and be a force for good, but Selina wasn't all that interested in it.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Reminds me of Wanda with Westview in WandaVision.

    I thought it retroactively explained Batman's sudden trust issues and paranoia.

    In context I think this was when Batman was really into Catwoman and felt like she could really turn her life around and be a force for good, but Selina wasn't all that interested in it.
    Still doesn't answer the question about logic and counter-productiveness.

    Also in JLA #119, Geoff Johns said the transition happened suddenly.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Has Batman ever paid for creating Brother Eye which saw inocent people turned into OMACS? Heroes never pay for their mistakes. The only one who I can think of that did was Vance Astro over at Marvel who went to jail willingly for accidentally killing his abusive father.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Dr. Light deserved it, Batman didn't and didn't Catwoman ask her at one point for a mid wipe?
    Catwoman didn't ask for the first mindwipe. Light getting mindwiped also meant that he couldn't be prosecuted for raping Sue. Not to mention it ended up getting reversed so it wasn't even effective.

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