So are the rumors about Red Skull these days true?

[Huntsman Spider]

JJJ was mayor well before Trump got into the White House and his term as mayor ended with him resigning in utter disgrace with the debacle of Goblin Nation and the Superior Spider-Man. Also, Jonah, for all his considerable character flaws, has more of a functional conscience and sense of empathy, and the topic of him having unwittingly radicalized someone with his crusade against Spider-Man was tackled by Nick Spencer in the ASM arc, "Lifetime Achievement," which confronted Jonah with someone who felt betrayed enough by him endorsing and supporting Spider-Man after years of condemning him as a menace to go to considerable, criminal extremes.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, I remember that stuff throughout his run. I thought it was kind of cringy there, but I wouldn't accuse Spencer as portraying said views or people who held them in a bad light.

I think he was portraying them as taking it too far, for certain. I mean, going so far as to try to kill someone while they're speaking on campus . . . their viewpoints might deserve severe scrutiny or even condemnation, but the latter shouldn't come in the form of (attempted) murder.

[CosmiComic]

I think he was portraying them as taking it too far, for certain. I mean, going so far as to try to kill someone while they're speaking on campus . . . their viewpoints might deserve severe scrutiny or even condemnation, but the latter shouldn't come in the form of (attempted) murder.

But most people speaking on campus don't get attacked

[ZuLuLu]

I think he was portraying them as taking it too far, for certain. I mean, going so far as to try to kill someone while they're speaking on campus . . . their viewpoints might deserve severe scrutiny or even condemnation, but the latter shouldn't come in the form of (attempted) murder.

To defend Spencer a bit, I think at the time he was constantly getting in debates with leftist on twitter who felt that violence was always okay against those who expressed white nationalist views. So that may have been an attempt to show where their extreme views may eventually lead.

[Mister Mets]

But most people speaking on campus don't get attacked

Fiction is about situations that go bad. Crimes of all sorts occur more often in superhero comics than in the real world.

A valid point. Plus, I doubt Marvel wants to make Jonah a "villain" again given he and Spidey are finally on good terms.

If they're mocking someone's ideas it's probably to do it with a supporting character rather than a villain.

Yeah, I agree with all his points:

1) Peterson is relatively mild. He says some weird things but he's not going to lead an army of followers to some sort of violent revolution. There are far more extreme alt-right figures.

2) Yes, I think there has been some history between Coates and Peterson leading up to this.

3) Yes, if he really wanted to satirize Peterson, he should have used a new character, someone more subtle. As it stands now, the comparison just comes off as a joke. I think there is something slightly insidious about Peterson in the way he mixes bad information with good... that could be satirized, but by using the Red Skull it comes off as too silly.

Making someone who isn't an extremist a model for the Red Skull diminishes the work. It makes Marvel look crazy, and Coates look petty.

To defend Spencer a bit, I think at the time he was constantly getting in debates with leftist on twitter who felt that violence was always okay against those who expressed white nationalist views. So that may have been an attempt to show where their extreme views may eventually lead.

Nick Spencer was also willing to look at his own side, and to consider how views he agrees with can lead to bad outcomes.

I'm reminded of Orwell's decision to make Big Brother in 1984 a left-wing totalitarian state, because he wanted to focus on totalitarianism rather than left VS right.

[CosmiComic]

I get it's fiction but if a writer wants to deal with a real world issue, don't exaggerate it to prove a point. Automatic centrism isn't purely ideal either

[ed2962]

Fiction is about situations that go bad. Crimes of all sorts occur more often in superhero comics than in the real world.

If they're mocking someone's ideas it's probably to do it with a supporting character rather than a villain.

Making someone who isn't an extremist a model for the Red Skull diminishes the work. It makes Marvel look crazy, and Coates look petty.

Nick Spencer was also willing to look at his own side, and to consider how views he agrees with can lead to bad outcomes.

I'm reminded of Orwell's decision to make Big Brother in 1984 a left-wing totalitarian state, because he wanted to focus on totalitarianism rather than left VS right.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. It's not that Peterson is the model for Red Skull, it's that rhetoric like Peterson's is used by alt-right types to lead folks down that pipeline.

[ed2962]

I get it's fiction but if a writer wants to deal with a real world issue, don't exaggerate it to prove a point. Automatic centrism isn't purely ideal either

Well, let's be reasonable...in all forms of fiction writers use exaggerations to get their point across sometimes.

[Kid Devil]

I chuckled a bit when I found out about this. Jordan Peterson isn't a bad person whether you agree with him or not so it's funny that the writer is making Red Skull talk like him. I don't know why they would make the leader of Nazis a conservative but since they did I think there could have been better options than the down to Earth and calm Peterson.

[ed2962]

I chuckled a bit when I found out about this. Jordan Peterson isn't a bad person whether you agree with him or not so it's funny that the writer is making Red Skull talk like him. I don't know why they would make the leader of Nazis a conservative but since they did I think there could have been better options than the down to Earth and calm Peterson.

Peterson likes (or did) using phrases that the alt-right has adopted. "Cultural Marxism," "saving Western Civilization," etc...suggesting that colleges are a hot bed of communism ( despite him having collection of Soviet art), transgender people are somehow "forcing" themselves on society and what not.

[CosmiComic]

Well, let's be reasonable...in all forms of fiction writers use exaggerations to get their point across sometimes.

That's true, but sometimes the fiction isn't that far from the truth. Alt-right groups have attacked and continue to attack people. Look at the anti-Asian racism in North America during the pandemic. Meanwhile, nobody's attacking right wingers or separating them from their children. IMO there's no "both sides are equally bad", so exaggerating and then claiming it's commentary doesn't work for me. You can criticize extreme leftist cancel culture without making it something it's not

Peterson likes (or did) using phrases that the alt-right has adopted. "Cultural Marxism," "saving Western Civilization," etc...suggesting that colleges are a hot bed of communism ( despite him having collection of Soviet art), transgender people are somehow "forcing" themselves on society and what not.

Exactly. He's not a Nazi but he is questionable

[evolutionaryFan]

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. It's not that Peterson is the model for Red Skull, it's that rhetoric like Peterson's is used by alt-right types to lead folks down that pipeline.

Just saw Peterson describing "Frozen" as feminist propaganda. I've been too charitable to the guy. He's nuts.

[CosmiComic]

Is feminist propaganda even necessarily bad?

Also, is that West Coast Native American art behind him?

[Celgress]

Just saw Peterson describing "Frozen" as feminist propaganda. I've been too charitable to the guy. He's nuts.

Jeez, and here I always thought it was incest propaganda. I'm glad Mr. Peterson showed me the error of my ways with his brilliant video. I was blind but now I see.

[Celgress]

Is feminist propaganda even necessarily bad?

Also, is that West Coast Native American art behind him?

Er, I'm not a big fan of any type of propaganda as I feel people should think for themselves.