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  1. #16
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Er, it's too on the nose (as they say) for my tastes. I prefer my allegories to be more subtle a combination of several figures (historical or contemporaneous) works best rather than one obvious "inspiration" *cough* stand-in *cough*.
    Last edited by Celgress; 04-07-2021 at 08:27 PM.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't follow Peterson so I didn't understand all those references.
    Jordan Peterson (in)famously used lobsters as an example to argue that human hierarchy is a natural phenomenon than a societal one. While it's somewhat reasonable(I don't think the cause for hierarchy is binary.) he and his followers often use this narrative to shut down topics like gender equality.

    And he wrote a book "12 rules of life", which has rather confused references to Jung, again he wrote fishy stuff that push against societal change and progress and disguise it as a "self-help". Some streamer I saw jokingly quote it as "Incel Manifesto", since sad single dudes who desperately need a daddy figure seem to be his target audience.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Jordan Peterson (in)famously used lobsters as an example to argue that human hierarchy is a natural phenomenon than a societal one. While it's somewhat reasonable(I don't think the cause for hierarchy is binary.) he and his followers often use this narrative to shut down topics like gender equality.

    And he wrote a book "12 rules of life", which has rather confused references to Jung, again he wrote fishy stuff that push against societal change and progress and disguise it as a "self-help". Some streamer I saw jokingly quote it as "Incel Manifesto", since sad single dudes who desperately need a daddy figure seem to be his target audience.
    Honestly some of that sounds like it deserves on the nose derision.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Er, it's too on the nose (as they say) for my tastes. I prefer my allegories to be more subtle a combination of several figures (historical or contemporaneous) works best rather than one obvious "inspiration" *cough* stand-in *cough*.
    Yeah, I mean I don't see the point... this is a pretty blatant direct reference to Peterson. Little attempt to mask it. So Coates must be expecting a backlash. Is it really worth it? I mean is Peterson that dangerous? I can understand commenting on the Trump-cult phenomenon... that's been dangerous and cost lives.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Yeah, I mean I don't see the point... this is a pretty blatant direct reference to Peterson. Little attempt to mask it. So Coates must be expecting a backlash. Is it really worth it? I mean is Peterson that dangerous? I can understand commenting on the Trump-cult phenomenon... that's been dangerous and cost lives.
    Peterson is dangerous insofar as his campaigning becoming a reality in wanting to get rid of women and racial studies and many more other humanities studies from universities.

  6. #21
    Incredible Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    You're Peterson?
    No I misread your post and thought I was the one you were talking to.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with this Peterson guy so I didn't recognize the reference. To me Red Skull's act just seemed like a extension of many of those propogandist Alt-Right/white nationalists types who want to pit people against each other for their beloved 'race/culture war' fantasy that is central to their extremist ideology.

    Coates isn't the first writer to use the Red Skull this way. I think I remember Red Skull lecturing a crowd of followers before with a similar rant. It may of been around the time he stole Charles Xavier's brain. I do know in Uncanny Avengers he did another one of his America is in decline rants.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    No I misread your post and thought I was the one you were talking to.
    No problem. I was just trying to be funny

    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    I'm not familiar with this Peterson guy so I didn't recognize the reference. To me Red Skull's act just seemed like a extension of many of those propogandist Alt-Right/white nationalists types who want to pit people against each other for their beloved 'race/culture war' fantasy that is central to their extremist ideology.

    Coates isn't the first writer to use the Red Skull this way. I think I remember Red Skull lecturing a crowd of followers before with a similar rant. It may of been around the time he stole Charles Xavier's brain. I do know in Uncanny Avengers he did another one of his America is in decline rants.
    If these people don't want to be mocked, they shouldn't say things deserving to be mocked. Alt-right types should be denounced

    Whether it's consistent with Red Skull's characterization is another matter

  9. #24
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    yeah ta nehisi coates wrote his idea of redskull as jordan peterson
    its pretty much intentional, skull talks about leading people like lobsters, his website has the 10 rules of life (like petersons 12 rules of life), chaos and order, feminist trap etc
    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    He seems bemused. But he's taking it better than his followers are.

    https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/...88433013690369
    Well, he's older so he probably already knows comic writers sometimes use their books to take shots at people.

    Twitter on the other hand.
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  10. #25
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    So I heard an interesting rumor about Red Skull that made me chuckle a little. Apparently Jordan Peterson is saying he's noticed many similarities to himself and the way Red Skull is being written. I was curious if any of this is true because I find the idea of Red Skull acting as a motivational speaker to be hilarious. I mean realistically his rep would speak for itself so I don't see how many people wouldn't know who he is already. The guy is a mass murderer as well so the idea itself seems dumb.
    Yes, it's been mentioned it's Milton Berle'esque...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Yeah, I mean I don't see the point... this is a pretty blatant direct reference to Peterson. Little attempt to mask it. So Coates must be expecting a backlash. Is it really worth it? I mean is Peterson that dangerous? I can understand commenting on the Trump-cult phenomenon... that's been dangerous and cost lives.
    I doubt it's about Peterson as an individual, but more about how him and similar figures form a pipeline to the alt-right. In isolation, his self help stuff is pretty benign and he's far from being an actual Nazi, but he frequently weighs in on social issues and his rambling speeches tend to lean towards the right side of the spectrum. There's nothing wrong with being a conservative, but when you pepper your rants with terms like "cultural marxists" and "enforced monogamy"...well, some of it's is kind of yikes.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I doubt it's about Peterson as an individual, but more about how him and similar figures form a pipeline to the alt-right. In isolation, his self help stuff is pretty benign and he's far from being an actual Nazi, but he frequently weighs in on social issues and his rambling speeches tend to lean towards the right side of the spectrum. There's nothing wrong with being a conservative, but when you pepper your rants with terms like "cultural marxists" and "enforced monogamy"...well, some of it's is kind of yikes.
    Cultural Marxism is such a bogeyman. What does it even mean? It's not like the Eurocentric male-dominated culture he's a fan of is wholly innocent or without negative consequences.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    I'm not familiar with this Peterson guy so I didn't recognize the reference. To me Red Skull's act just seemed like a extension of many of those propogandist Alt-Right/white nationalists types who want to pit people against each other for their beloved 'race/culture war' fantasy that is central to their extremist ideology.

    Coates isn't the first writer to use the Red Skull this way. I think I remember Red Skull lecturing a crowd of followers before with a similar rant. It may of been around the time he stole Charles Xavier's brain. I do know in Uncanny Avengers he did another one of his America is in decline rants.
    I'm sure that was the whole point.

    For what it's worth Jordan got famous when he protested Canadian Bill C-16. It was a bill adding Trans people to list of folks you can't discriminate against. Peterson mispresented it saying that the government was compelling speech and was going to force people to use made up pronouns like Ze and Zer. This got him fans among the anti-SJW crowd. Then he went around to anyone who would have him talking about how the colleges are full of socialists who are trying indoctrinate your kids. And he loves calling people he disagrees with "post modern neo-marxists".
    And, oh...he and his daughter for a while were promoting and all meat diet.

    So I'm sure he believes much of the stuff he says, but some of it comes off as grift.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Cultural Marxism is such a bogeyman. What does it even mean? It's not like the Eurocentric male-dominated culture he's a fan of is wholly innocent or without negative consequences.
    I believe you add patriarchy next to capitalism.

    That being said it all rings hollow, there is no real cost its not speaking truth to power.

    Now if Coates had Captain America dealing with the CCP or companies like Disney's unwillingness to confront the CCP that would be bold
    Last edited by steel_atlas; 04-08-2021 at 08:25 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by steel_atlas View Post
    I believe you add patriarchy next to capitalism.
    Oh yeah. His fans would probably only complain about capitalism if a movie or video game has a minority lead character. Because of course that's the worst crime committed by capitalism!

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