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  1. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    Well I see a clear causation---->action. The CRADLE's extent wasn't news or atleast news to them, Ororo immediately approaching mystique about it seems to suggest this.

    The avengers didnt also turn their backs on the champions. It was acknowledged they got caught up in a big crisis in the champions book and cap did help in miles book too. Its a very loaded way to put it.
    I can't say on miles and cap helping since I don't read that book so will grant you that which is cool but when they were on the actual run and about to be thrown in cradle because Viv turned them in cyclops was the hero on duty.

    The court scene was nice but it didn't do much to actually protect them it was simple grand standing. They didn't put their status as avengers who can operate in the u.s on the line despite not being government agents and that wasn't written by the x-line. Some may call that responsible and some may see it another way. But I'm going by the books. In caps own book I must have missed that i only read a few issues like when him and Sam were playing nice before they rescued those kids in cages and Sharon took center stage and shuri empowered her but I can only do Coates in small doses.
    Last edited by jwatson; 04-10-2021 at 03:57 PM.
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  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I can't say on miles and cap helping since I don't read that book so will grant you that which is cool but when they were on the actual run and about to be thrown in cradle because Viv turned them in cyclops was the hero on duty.
    yeah im aware.
    in that very issue it's mentioned that they tried to get a message to them because they were sympathetic and trying to help at the hearing but got caught up in a crisis

  3. #288
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Frankly, reading Champions makes the rapid rise and fall of CRADLE look like it happens in the span of only a week or two. They're on the run and actually measure out the days pretty openly.

    Given that most of the Marvel heroes are good people trying to help the world, I don't know why you default to "they aren't saying anything therefore they don't care" instead of "they aren't around because they're busy saving the world/stopping a disaster somewhere else"

    You could easily flip that reasoning on its head to attack the X-men for not getting involved in any number of crisis' going on. Hell, even in Outlawed the QC forbids bringing them to Krakoa, and its Scott who moves with a couple of mutants who were already a part of the Champions to help on his own volition and against orders.
    Last edited by pkingdom; 04-10-2021 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Frankly, reading Champions makes the rapid rise and fall of CRADLE look like it happens in the span of only a week or two. They're on the run and actually measure out the days pretty openly.
    It was definitely longer than that. Read juggernaut. Who thought there would be a day in the mu where kids are lucky to be mutants.
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  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Frankly, reading Champions makes the rapid rise and fall of CRADLE look like it happens in the span of only a week or two. They're on the run and actually measure out the days pretty openly.

    Given that most of the Marvel heroes are good people trying to help the world, I don't know why you default to "they aren't saying anything therefore they don't care" instead of "they aren't around because they're busy saving the world/stopping a disaster somewhere else"

    You could easily flip that reasoning on its head to attack the X-men for not getting involved in any number of crisis' going on. Hell, even in Outlawed the QC forbids bringing them to Krakoa, and its Scott who moves with a couple of mutants who were already a part of the Champions to help on his own volition and against orders.
    yeah im assuming covid fucked up so much of the pacing and resolution
    the resolution seemed to happen very quick and way too easily

    absolutely nothing of worth came out of this "event"

  6. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Frankly, reading Champions makes the rapid rise and fall of CRADLE look like it happens in the span of only a week or two. They're on the run and actually measure out the days pretty openly.

    Given that most of the Marvel heroes are good people trying to help the world, I don't know why you default to "they aren't saying anything therefore they don't care" instead of "they aren't around because they're busy saving the world/stopping a disaster somewhere else"

    You could easily flip that reasoning on its head to attack the X-men for not getting involved in any number of crisis' going on. Hell, even in Outlawed the QC forbids bringing them to Krakoa, and its Scott who moves with a couple of mutants who were already a part of the Champions to help on his own volition and against orders.
    It would make no sense to get on mutants for a human law that if they violated would cost the the first safe place they have and a potential war with the united states. But ok. On the other hand if cap took them to wakanda with him or hid them somewhere he would be risking his free reign to hero in America, not the lives of millions of other people. But ok,same thing. And yet, cyclops still showed up and bluffed through it knowing he didn't have the back of his country only a few mutants. Cap played the on a mission card
    He didn't leave any lawyers for them something I would think about little loop holes like that.
    Last edited by jwatson; 04-10-2021 at 04:16 PM.
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  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    It would make no sense to get on mutants for a human law that if they violated would cost the the first safe place they have and a potential war with the united states. But ok. On the other hand if cap took them to wakanda with him or hid them somewhere he would be risking his free reign to hero in America, not the lives of millions of other people. But ok,same thing. And yet, cyclops still showed up and bluffed through it knowing he didn't have the back of his country only a few mutants. Cap played the on a mission card
    He didn't leave any lawyers for them something I would think about little loop holes like that.
    Mutants can only be judged in krakoa. No problem giving safe heaven for Champions

  8. #293
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    It would make no sense to get on mutants for a human law that if they violated would cost the the first safe place they have and a potential war with the united states. But ok. On the other hand if cap took them to wakanda with him or hid them somewhere he would be risking his free reign to hero in America, not the lives of millions of other people. But ok,same thing. And yet, cyclops still showed up and bluffed through it knowing he didn't have the back of his country only a few mutants. Cap played the on a mission card
    He didn't leave any lawyers for them something I would think about little loop holes like that.
    That's a hell of a double standard. "Playing the mission card"? Really? And whole Cyclops gave them safe haven, he didn't actually help solve the actual problem. The Champions had to leave and do that on their own. Mostly because ITS THEIR BOOK AND THEIR STORY.

  9. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Mutants can only be judged in krakoa. No problem giving safe heaven for Champions
    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Mutants can only be judged in krakoa. No problem giving safe heaven for Champions
    So should krakoa just destroy the rest of the world? Because at this point what's the point by that logic. If mutants finally got a safe place because humans were killing and experimenting on them and now humans have turned on their own children and have to go to the safe place of mutants because humans still won't stand up and protect them and give their own children safety. It says humanity is an utter failure in the mu imo.

    Also you make a good point. It makes no sense to bring humans to krakoa when only mutants can be judged there. So basically they would be letting in immigrants and giving them free reign.
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  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    So should krakoa just destroy the rest of the world? Because at this point what's the point by that logic. If mutants finally got a safe place because humans were killing and experimenting on them and now humans have turned on their own children and have to go to the safe place of mutants because humans still won't stand up and protect them and give their own children safety. It says humanity is an utter failure in the mu imo.

    Also you make a good point. It makes no sense to bring humans to krakoa when only mutants can be judged there. So basically they would be letting in immigrants and giving them free reign.
    You do know this was a USA law right?

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    So should krakoa just destroy the rest of the world? Because at this point what's the point by that logic. If mutants finally got a safe place because humans were killing and experimenting on them and now humans have turned on their own children and have to go to the safe place of mutants because humans still won't stand up and protect them and give their own children safety. It says humanity is an utter failure in the mu imo.

    Also you make a good point. It makes no sense to bring humans to krakoa when only mutants can be judged there. So basically they would be letting in immigrants and giving them free reign.
    There isn't problem bring humans there, I said that krakoa is the only place that can judge mutants. I said anothing about Krakoa only judging Mutants, there isnt a law about that

  12. #297

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There isn't problem bring humans there, I said that krakoa is the only place that can judge mutants. I said anothing about Krakoa only judging Mutants, there isnt a law about that
    But any human on krakoa would not be a citizen meaning any country could then claim a kidnapping. So there ya go. Literally america could say Kyle is being held against his will by his husband and start and international incident if they wanted. Granted Kyle can go through the process and face it and get resolution but who knows. I think a lot when I'm drinking. Lol
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  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    But any human on krakoa would not be a citizen meaning any country could then claim a kidnapping. So there ya go. Literally america could say Kyle is being held against his will by his husband and start and international incident if they wanted. Granted Kyle can go through the process and face it and get resolution but who knows. I think a lot when I'm drinking. Lol
    Any human o Krakoa if commits a crime on Krakoa will be judged by the country of krakoa, pretty simple.
    There isn't any kidnapping if they are there on their own will.

    Also no reasons to judge champions as they didn't commited any crimes

  14. #299
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    Oh Vita you really know how to get a conversation going. I mean 20 pages just for spoilers! Amazing ....keep up the good job.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtynun View Post
    Oh Vita you really know how to get a conversation going. I mean 20 pages just for spoilers! Amazing ....keep up the good job.

    yeah meaningless hero v hero conflicts get pages of engagement by pitting fanbases against each other
    doesnt mean its good, its just controversial

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