Children of the Atom 2 preview

[jwatson]

If the x-office can take time and panels to show the avengers/ff being antagonistic for no reason, they can show them caring and helping instead. Almost everyone has limited panels and pages to tell a story. Just having their books say "man that sucks about mutants huh" won't be enough to x-readers anyway. They'd have to dedicate an entire arc towards a problem they make affecting mutants for the story because "offering sympathy" is gonna be very little. Inserting misc non-x members into arcs that are already ongoing for a few panels or a page helping would work way better from the x-books or even just mentioning that the avengers have to deal with xyz monster or the ff have to deal with abc demon
Still, if you have mixed teams like A-force where dazzler thor was struggling with MPoX you can see team members caring, offering sympathy. But books like Uncanny avengers it was literally the mission statement to include avengers in those arcs and write arcs around it.

Like look at claremont he included thor in the mutant massacre storyline, carol in the breaking into the pentagon to delete mutant files story, and later helping storm with xse and protecting from the more racist members in authority and so on.

Then on the flip side of that you can't be surprised with the reaction when the only time they can dedicate that panel space is when they want to be suspicious of mutants (several books have taken valuable time to give their opinion on what those mutants must be up to on their secret island)in their own books and for events but not for when they are being murdered. I think that is fair.

[dirtynun]

Not gonna lie, it does kinda sound like you hold it against them for what is literally an editorial issue. The Inhuman issue happened because Marvel was pushing the Inhumans at the time and you can hardly blame the Avengers for not dealing with it considering nobody that wasn’t either X-Men or Inhumans dealt with that issue. Plus it really seems that if the Avengers do overstep their boundaries, Xfans complain yet if they don’t, they complain that they didn’t do anything to help. It honestly feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don’t kind of situation considering Xfans will complain about the Avengers as if they’re devil spawn no matter what they do.

If we are going to do that then it would be more productive to turn your anger towards the xwriters rather than a bunch of fictional characters that do not write themselves.

[butterflykyss]

And the x-men were fighting to protect what? During the inhuman vs x-men event please I am confused where was the avengers when the terrggien cloud was killing mutants. Did they do anything to help, I am genuinely asking because I don't even remember seeing them up until the civil war 2 comic. When decimation happened what did the avengers do, I remember carol saying something to the effect of oops and the rest of the avengers looking nonchalantly at their television. I do not think the avengers are malicious towards mutants but they aren't as great an aide as many of you try to paint them as. They do not go out if their way to advance mutant issues on a regular basis. They are the equivalent of a white influencer posting a black square when there is national outrage over police brutality of black people. The influencer isn't racist or a bad person but a paragon of of hope and activism they are not. The avengers and the x-men live in very different worlds this influence their perspectives o issues and how to deal with things. The x-men as you all know are despised and the avengers are loved and respected.

as another poster said this story/conflict was insulated only to xmen/inhumans. would one conclude because the xmen were not fighting against threats highlighted in the avengers they were not invested in helping those who were in harms way? yes the universe is shared but that doesn't mean the offices will have permission to use characters not within the scope of the story.

also the avengers came to the aid of jean in xmen red and that was not so long ago.

[jwatson]

If we are going to do that then it would be more productive to turn your anger towards the xwriters rather than a bunch of fictional characters that do not write themselves.

But even before that they have to stop assuming people are only reading one side because if you read most marvel books one would know with the exception of immortal hulk every last book that has mentioned krakoa in them so far has had some level of suspicion. So these so called.friends and not a single hero is happy for the mutants to finally have a place of their own
They can't blame those perceptions on the xwriters. The xwriters had the avengers show up and help in x-men red but why keep feeding a base that is feeding into only the negative perceptions of the story your trying to tell with every hero showing suspicion in their book but not having panel space to show help.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Then on the flip side of that you can't be surprised with the reaction when the only time they can dedicate that panel space is when they want to be suspicious of mutants (several books have taken valuable time to give their opinion on what those mutants must be up to on their secret island)in their own books and for events but not for when they are being murdered. I think that is fair.

And I don't really like that either, but that's kind of a recent phenomenon especially with the giant status quo change of mutants. Even internally they have doubts in the x-book mutant characters accusing mutants of "drinking the koolaid" and having issues with clones. I didnt like how krakoa hung up during king in black it didn't make sense though many mutants still helped. But champions still included prominent x-members helping lowkey. At best you can say they're antagonistic towards the leadership which is mainly xavier/magneto but show the other prominent x-men members being good and helpful.

[jwatson]

And I don't really like that either, but that's kind of a recent phenomenon especially with the giant status quo change of mutants. Even internally they have doubts in the x-book mutant characters accusing mutants of "drinking the koolaid" and having issues with clones. I didnt like how krakoa hung up during king in black it didn't make sense though many mutants still helped. But champions still included prominent x-members helping lowkey. At best you can say they're antagonistic towards the leadership which is mainly xavier/magneto but show the other prominent x-men members being good and helpful.

see I didn to have a problem with them hanging up because that is how the team is writing them, I do believe they would have hung up based on how the xbooks are written now. But I do have a problem when people want the xwriters to write it as though the avengers support mutants and krakoa when in their own books most have gone on record as being suspicious even if in private conversations. So if I'm an xwriters and I use them to respect the main writers of that character I'm going with the voice they gave me by reading what they are presenting in a shared universe. It seems some want x-writers to write completely different characters than what are being presented in their own books. That seems unfair

[gonnagiveittoya]

The whole "mutants should be nicer to humans" mantra sounds to me like "that woman wouldn't have been called a bitch if she had just smiled".

It's like a minority can only be respected as long as they suck up to their oppressors in bad and good times.

This means they need to now hate all their human friends?

It feels sometimes in this era that now the focus of the X-Men is "mutants vs humans" despite the pitch for it being ostensibly the end of that. It's like half the writers each got different notes as to whether or not the X-Men have human allies and friends or not anymore.

[Ichijinijisanji]

see I didn to have a problem with them hanging up because that is how the dream is writing them. But I do have a problem when people want the xwriters to right it as though the avengers support mutants and krakoa when in their own books most have gone on record as being suspicious even if in private conversations. So if I'm an xwriters and I use them to respect the main writers of that character I'm going with the voice they gave me by reading what they are presenting in a shared universe. It seems some want x-writers to write completely different characters than what are being presented in their own books. That seems unfair

I don't think most have done that? The most recent one I remember was with ewing writing immortal she hulk, but ewing was quickly becoming an x-writer in sword and actually used it to present she hulk as mistrusting and bigoted and had wolverine cut her down for it.

Power pack and runaways and champions all have them helping out.
And the problem with hanging up was that its a global problem with a cosmic threat with knull. Everyone's gonna be affected, it made no sense

[Tycon]

Avengers aren't government, they are wakanda based.

And Captain America has times where he isn’t under the US government, but that doesn’t stop him from reminding others of and/or enforcing American laws & orders. Same goes for the former American Air Force pilot and spoiled billionaire who used to be a military contractor. They’re connected to the government whether they base themselves in a mansion or a dead Celestial.

and Outlawed is about to end

And did the Avengers do that or did the Champions do that with help from the Marauders?

[jwatson]

I don't think most have done that? The most recent one I remember was with ewing writing immortal she hulk, but ewing was quickly becoming an x-writer in sword and actually used it to present she hulk as mistrusting and bigoted and had wolverine cut her down for it.

Power pack and runaways and champions all have them helping out.
And the problem with hanging up was that its a global problem with a cosmic threat with knull. Everyone's gonna be affected, it made no sense

I would have to go look but I'm sure Hawkeye, ironman, and I think it was Stephen have at least all mentioned it in a negative light having conversations about what might be going on there. I'm sure I saw it other places around the time it started because I remember thinking we'll a lot of these writers now have a lot to say on the state of mutants when they have something. There were several books at the time to so all we have to go on or all the writers have to go on about how cap and others feel on mutants in krakoa is what has been presented on that side.

[Dev]

What I don't understand is why Marvel is letting this happen. They okay the X-office to do this huge shift in the x-books and then decide that the only way this get reflected in other books is by a random throwaway line here and there and than out of the blue the big guns of the Avengers just randomly show up in COTA to try and wag their finger to get the mutants to clean up their mess. This makes the Avengers look like incredible asshats. If Marvel had just taken the time to do a one shot or a book , to clearly outline the new status quo between the mutants and the rest of the heroes. in Which all the Avengers and other heroes clearly have a defense-able belief/standpoint/role within the whole new situation around Krakoa, then that would have made sense and not make the other heroes look like scumbags when they cameo like this in the x-books. But Marvel comics still is in an: let's ignore the x-men mode. This time not because they don't own the full rights, but because Marvel/Disney hasn't released any movies based one the x-men and thus the Avengers still have a leg up in the comics department. And thus the x-men still get ignored mostly besides some weird cameos outside their books, here and there. I bet that in a few years and a few Disney made x-men movie blockbusters later we will not have this weird happenings in the marvel books between the avengers and the x-men anymore.

[jwatson]

What I don't understand is why Marvel is letting this happen. They okay the X-office to do this huge shift in the x-books and then decide that the only way this get reflected in other books is by a random throwaway line here and there and than out of the blue the big guns of the Avengers just randomly show up in COTA to try and wag their finger to get the mutants to clean up their mess. This makes the Avengers look like incredible asshats. If Marvel had just taken the time to do a one shot or a book , to clearly outline the new status quo between the mutants and the rest of the heroes. in Which all the Avengers and other heroes clearly have a defense-able belief/standpoint/role within the whole new situation around Krakoa, then that would have made sense and not make the other heroes look like scumbags when they cameo like this in the x-books. But Marvel comics still is in an: let's ignore the x-men mode. This time not because they don't own the full rights, but because Marvel/Disney hasn't released any movies based one the x-men and thus the Avengers still have a leg up in the comics department. And thus the x-men still get ignored mostly besides some weird cameos outside their books, here and there. I bet that in a few years and a few Disney made x-men movie blockbusters later we will not have this weird happenings in the marvel books between the avengers and the x-men anymore.

There you go. this is literally all i'm saying for the most part. it shouldn't be on one side to always show the view in a supposed shared universe. Maybe the x-side is just better at it from being under dogs but surely not there fault. If i went to my editor and was like have any of the other books said anything about the status quo, i have this story with cap making an appearance and they give them the material. It's not the x-writer fault for writing the characters as presented in their own books.

[gonnagiveittoya]

One theory is that it's not being addressed so much on the non-X side is so if/when Hickman plays the Moiras last life card it doesn't impact the other books

[Noek]

And Captain America has times where he isn’t under the US government, but that doesn’t stop him from reminding others of and/or enforcing American laws & orders. Same goes for the former American Air Force pilot and spoiled billionaire who used to be a military contractor. They’re connected to the government whether they base themselves in a mansion or a dead Celestial.

Yes he enforces what American laws while in America, that's the point. The thing is since the nation of Krakoa has put out all Mutants are given citenzenship and under their laws this can lead to a conflict.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Yeah enforcing American laws is complicated when sometimes the writers act like mutants (or apparently anyone the X-Men can't figure out is a non-mutant) basically has cart blanche