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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalai View Post
    And Terrio is also the writer of Rise of Skywalker, so not to say he can't write, his writings are definitely questionable.
    Yeah Rise and BvS: UE are still bad movies imo, I don’t think Terrio was a good fit for these movies or characters, and by the time of the interview he agrees with me lol.
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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how much blame can be pinned on Terrio for RoS, it seems the script there for the film was re-written daily and even the best writers in the world would struggle to make an enjoyable out of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...v-superman/amp

    It also makes me wonder if the destruction porn in MOS was less a Snyder thing and more of a WB studio note given one of the biggest criticisms of Superman Returns was the lack of Action set pieces and the lack of Superman punching stuff.
    Bit of both probably. I recall one of the takeaways everyone had when Snyder was announced was everyone saying they'd know it'd be more action heavy than Returns was, so I imagine that's one of the reasons WB went with Snyder to begin with.

  3. #18
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalai View Post
    As far as I remember, the script for BvS was developed by David Goyer and Zack Snyder before Chris Terrio came on board,
    so I wouldn't count Zack Snyder out on the part about Batman branding people and blame that entirely on WB.
    At least David Goyer had some plans for Superman, and when Goyer left the project, everything went out of the window,
    Snyder and Terrio planned for Superman to be the villain for JL2, and the hero for JL3, as an arc for Superman, that's some weird planning right there.
    From reading the interview, it's pretty clear Terrio is insinuating that the stuff with Batman branding people was something the studio was pushing from the start and a point that Snyder and Goyer had to include in their initial treatment. The anecdote Terrio tells of a Warners suit trying to tell him the "proper " way of writing Batman indicates the suits were indeed dictating some parts of the characterizations of Batman and Superman.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    From reading the interview, it's pretty clear Terrio is insinuating that the stuff with Batman branding people was something the studio was pushing from the start and a point that Snyder and Goyer had to include in their initial treatment. The anecdote Terrio tells of a Warners suit trying to tell him the "proper " way of writing Batman indicates the suits were indeed dictating some parts of the characterizations of Batman and Superman.
    Gotta admit I’m dying to know what said “proper” way was. Bet it’s a doozy.
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  5. #20
    Amazing Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    From reading the interview, it's pretty clear Terrio is insinuating that the stuff with Batman branding people was something the studio was pushing from the start and a point that Snyder and Goyer had to include in their initial treatment. The anecdote Terrio tells of a Warners suit trying to tell him the "proper " way of writing Batman indicates the suits were indeed dictating some parts of the characterizations of Batman and Superman.
    Where would the studio have gotten the idea from but Snyder? He's the director and co-wrote the first script.

    The interview makes it clear that Terrio was the first one to argue with the studio that the movie was too dark. Snyder & Goyer hadn't disagreed with it and Snyder had more pull as the director. Terrio had an easier time convincing Snyder to tone down the darkness than the studio but that doesn't mean the idea didn't originally come from Snyder.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Gotta admit I’m dying to know what said “proper” way was. Bet it’s a doozy.
    I'd like to know the Superman one as well, if they even cared enough to have an opinion.

    I bet they gave even less crap about Wonder Woman

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Ben [Affleck] called me and said that he was working on this film, which was a Superman film in which he was going to play Batman.
    So does this mean there was a version of the script in which Superman wasn't a minor player?

    I know this is a cynical take, but seems like Terrio is just one of many folks responsible for hijacking the "Superman film." I do appreciate some of the insights in this article, though, particularly the bit on Marie Colvin. And even if I think the DCEU is generally pretty bad, I do think some of the films got railroaded in ways Marvel films just don't have to worry about.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Gotta admit I’m dying to know what said “proper” way was. Bet it’s a doozy.
    That conversation seems to have occurred after BvS bombed and before Justice League started filming. It may be one of the unique cases where the "suits" were giving him some decent advice. Hell we know they blocked the Lois/Batman stuff entirely, both Snyder's original plan for them to have a baby and his fallback of Bruce having an unrequited love for Lois.

    On the whole I don't see how any of this absolves Snyder of the issues with the movies and everything. We know what his unfiltered ideas for the Justice League trilogy were. The issue Terrio identified were coming directly from Snyder.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Nothing in the interview says Snyder disagrees with the darker elements of the film, just that Terrio did and he did his best to steer the ship into what he felt was the right direction and that Snyder was very nice about it.

    Anyway, this whole thing is starting to feel like a circular firing squad with somebody blaming somebody else for the failure but not that other somebody. I can't wait to get some new content so we can put all this behind us.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    So does this mean there was a version of the script in which Superman wasn't a minor player?

    I know this is a cynical take, but seems like Terrio is just one of many folks responsible for hijacking the "Superman film." I do appreciate some of the insights in this article, though, particularly the bit on Marie Colvin. And even if I think the DCEU is generally pretty bad, I do think some of the films got railroaded in ways Marvel films just don't have to worry about.
    Terrio still wrote Eisenberg Lex so he’s still a crappy writer, but really the minute Batman was going to be part of the sequel, he was going to become the main protagonist. He’d have to be, because they have to do a bunch of legwork to establish the new take and explore why he hates Superman, especially since Snyder has a hard on for Frank Miller and wanted an older Batman with history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    That conversation seems to have occurred after BvS bombed and before Justice League started filming. It may be one of the unique cases where the "suits" were giving him some decent advice. Hell we know they blocked the Lois/Batman stuff entirely, both Snyder's original plan for them to have a baby and his fallback of Bruce having an unrequited love for Lois.

    On the whole I don't see how any of this absolves Snyder of the issues with the movies and everything. We know what his unfiltered ideas for the Justice League trilogy were. The issue Terrio identified were coming directly from Snyder.
    Oh I totally agree, and the funniest part would be if the advice the suit gave was good, because Terrio was pretty awful at handling these characters. But even he basically admits he was brought on solely to service Affleck who basically hijacked the DCEU and made it revolve around what he wanted to do.
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  11. #26
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Oh I totally agree, and the funniest part would be if the advice the suit gave was good, because Terrio was pretty awful at handling these characters. But even he basically admits he was brought on solely to service Affleck who basically hijacked the DCEU and made it revolve around what he wanted to do.
    What did Affleck do?

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    What did Affleck do?
    Terrio basically says that Affleck brought him on board because he wasn’t happy with the planned DCEU story. So he gets his guy on board as the main scriptwriter with Goyer getting pushed out, and Terrio rewrites BvS and plots out the JL arc where Superman gets cucked and spends the majority of the films as the villain, with the ending being Bruce’s son becomes the new Batman. Affleck basically transformed what was supposed to be a Superman trilogy into a Batman story by bringing his guy on to plot out the overall arc of the Snyderverse.

    Don’t really hold any ill will towards him since Snyder was the one who wanted Batman, and of course Affleck is going to want to be the central star, but he and Terrio’s plans for the DCEU revolved around Batman.
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  13. #28
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Terrio basically says that Affleck brought him on board because he wasn’t happy with the planned DCEU story. So he gets his guy on board as the main scriptwriter with Goyer getting pushed out, and Terrio rewrites BvS and plots out the JL arc where Superman gets cucked and spends the majority of the films as the villain, with the ending being Bruce’s son becomes the new Batman. Affleck basically transformed what was supposed to be a Superman trilogy into a Batman story by bringing his guy on to plot out the overall arc of the Snyderverse.

    Don’t really hold any ill will towards him since Snyder was the one who wanted Batman, and of course Affleck is going to want to be the central star, but he and Terrio’s plans for the DCEU revolved around Batman.
    Ah. What else is new in DC.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    What did Affleck do?
    There were also anecdotes how Affleck himself would make last minute script changes, while dressed in costume and ready to shoot. I get the feeling he wasn't writing in extra characterization for Superman....

  15. #30
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Terrio basically says that Affleck brought him on board because he wasn’t happy with the planned DCEU story. So he gets his guy on board as the main scriptwriter with Goyer getting pushed out, and Terrio rewrites BvS and plots out the JL arc where Superman gets cucked and spends the majority of the films as the villain, with the ending being Bruce’s son becomes the new Batman. Affleck basically transformed what was supposed to be a Superman trilogy into a Batman story by bringing his guy on to plot out the overall arc of the Snyderverse.

    Don’t really hold any ill will towards him since Snyder was the one who wanted Batman, and of course Affleck is going to want to be the central star, but he and Terrio’s plans for the DCEU revolved around Batman.
    All of this. The minute they gave Snyder freedom to use Batman was the minute Superman character was done, Affleck just had the pull to make sure he would have an actual character arc, something Henry Cavill clearly didn't.

    Superman was done really duty, not just by Snyder but the WB in general.
    I just watched TFATWS and man, they honor everything Steve Rogers represented. He was everything Superman is supposed to be and Marvel wasn't ashamed of it, at the end of the latest episode (episode 4) I was troubled by what happened to the shield in a way that a thousand evil Superman with glowing red eyes just can't make me feel. The reason is that for the last decade the MCU have show what a genuine good guy is and see what he represents tainted is gut wrenching.

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