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  1. #91
    Spectacular Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Weird hill to die on, but it's your opinion. I don't think playing the character straight is lazy, but then I don't think Superman needs to be fixed, retooled or reconfigured so much as just embraced unapologetically.

    I'm still taken a bit aback by the concept that it's lazy not to change an established character's race.
    It's not lazy to keep the character the same race but if laziness applies to racebending characters then it applies to keeping the character the same race and a white dude playing Superman for the 8th time when most movies already star white dudes is lazier than doing something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    AT&T/WB probably doesn't view it that way. They most likely think making Superman black does let them off the hook. Probably part of the appeal.
    If it has to be one, a black Superman is better than WB doing a Vixen movie if they don't actually care about diversity because Superman has a bigger safety net.

  2. #92
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I think the "lazy" comment applies to racebending a character if the whole point of doing so is just to advertise to the world how much you supposedly care about diversity. I didn't watch Fant4stic, but I'm guessing that qualifies.

    It's probably not my preferred modifier, though. Maybe I'd say at best it feels like stunt casting or just shallow in general.

  3. #93
    Spectacular Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I think the "lazy" comment applies to racebending a character if the whole point of doing so is just to advertise to the world how much you supposedly care about diversity. I didn't watch Fant4stic, but I'm guessing that qualifies.

    It's probably not my preferred modifier, though. Maybe I'd say at best it feels like stunt casting or just shallow in general.
    Fant4stic was bad but it doesn't count for what you're saying. Racebending Johnny Storm was the director's idea and it affected the story.

    Even if WB is doing it as a publicity stunt, Ta-Nehisi Coates is the writer and you can't say he doesn't care about diversity.

  4. #94
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kara Danvers View Post
    Having another white Superman is lazier than racebending the character.


    Since we’re still discussing this I’ll throw in my immediate reaction to this take.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #95
    Spectacular Member Kara Danvers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post


    Since we’re still discussing this I’ll throw in my immediate reaction to this take.
    If doing something new and riskier is lazy, doing the same thing again and again is even lazier.

    Take it up with the guy that said racebending is lazy.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I think the "lazy" comment applies to racebending a character if the whole point of doing so is just to advertise to the world how much you supposedly care about diversity. I didn't watch Fant4stic, but I'm guessing that qualifies.

    It's probably not my preferred modifier, though. Maybe I'd say at best it feels like stunt casting or just shallow in general.
    It probably is. Still, what's the other option, a whole white team? F4 is one of the whitest teams in comics

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kara Danvers View Post
    Fant4stic was bad but it doesn't count for what you're saying. Racebending Johnny Storm was the director's idea and it affected the story.

    Even if WB is doing it as a publicity stunt, Ta-Nehisi Coates is the writer and you can't say he doesn't care about diversity.
    You'll have to pardon (actually, you don't ) my general cynicism about Hollywood boardrooms. We've read enough stories about their meddling that I can only come to the conclusion that every decision they make puts the art or the message far secondary to ROI, so whenever a decision is made that has any tinge of controversy, it's to improve the bottom line first and foremost. I don't carry that cynicism over diversity pushes (or at least not as much) for characters like Calvin Ellis, Kenan Kong, or Hernan Guerra and actually appreciate their existence, especially Guerra who has been criminally underused.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It probably is. Still, what's the other option, a whole white team? F4 is one of the whitest teams in comics
    I think this is a really complicated issue that I can't sufficiently cover in one post, so I'll try to keep this pretty high level. I don't think every movie that comes out needs to cover every representation bucket. I don't have a big problem with movies that are "too white" unless the sheer amount of whiteness just seems wrong. Like, that Tom Cruise is the main character in a movie called The Last Samurai still rubs me the wrong way. Or, while I think the early uproar about Resident Evil 5 was stupid and largely generated by people who really didn't follow gaming or the series, it at least sparked the creation of Sheva Alomar who was exactly what the game needed. If you're just trying to tell a story and it happens to be four white protagonists and a white villain, I kind of shrug it off. But if you make movies that take place in NYC and all the meaningful cast are white, that doesn't ring NYC to me. And if you're making a stable of movies like Disney is with Marvel and non-white characters are so few and far between, yeah, that's a no-no, too. In short, if you're talking about a small group of characters for a movie, then being "too white" doesn't seem like a problem, but as that fictional universe expands outward it can only feel authentic if it becomes more and more diverse.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I think this is a really complicated issue that I can't sufficiently cover in one post, so I'll try to keep this pretty high level. I don't think every movie that comes out needs to cover every representation bucket. I don't have a big problem with movies that are "too white" unless the sheer amount of whiteness just seems wrong. Like, that Tom Cruise is the main character in a movie called The Last Samurai still rubs me the wrong way. Or, while I think the early uproar about Resident Evil 5 was stupid and largely generated by people who really didn't follow gaming or the series, it at least sparked the creation of Sheva Alomar who was exactly what the game needed. If you're just trying to tell a story and it happens to be four white protagonists and a white villain, I kind of shrug it off. But if you make movies that take place in NYC and all the meaningful cast are white, that doesn't ring NYC to me. And if you're making a stable of movies like Disney is with Marvel and non-white characters are so few and far between, yeah, that's a no-no, too. In short, if you're talking about a small group of characters for a movie, then being "too white" doesn't seem like a problem, but as that fictional universe expands outward it can only feel authentic if it becomes more and more diverse.
    Yeah, if it's based in somewhere like ancient Norway, i don't or won't expect much ethnic diversity. A fictional universe, like Marvel or DC, need more diversity, especially when they preach about stuff like "the little guy" or "fascism is evil" yet the default hero is a young Anglo-American guy.

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