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  1. #16
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    On that point, does anyone have any thoughts on stone distribution between teams and how that might impact things.

  2. #17
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    On that point, does anyone have any thoughts on stone distribution between teams and how that might impact things.
    For team X - give a couple to teleporters and let them dodge stuff. They can benefit from the powers of the others in the gang to hang in the air reeeeeeeallly high, to act as decoys for setting up big attacks from people who can do them, etc. Still favor the Avengers however - they teleporters are glass, after all.

    For team Mom... not sure, really. With equal speed, thinking back on this, they might be screwed. They don't have great ways to handle illusion-protected flyers, and that's something the Avengers can make happen pretty easily, even though they didn't in the film.

    Team three I still don't know.

    Team 4 - might be best to just give them to Fubuki and let her defend with perhaps Oneshotter and Darkshine acting in her defense as well. The HA guys don't have anyone with esoterics that would make them super suitable to keep-away.

    The Avengers have the advantage that Strange can just send their three stones into the magical hiding place Loki and he both use to hide stuff - Loki does it with both the Casket and the Tesseract, and Strange does it with the Time stone. Once there, the other team has literally no way to get those things back. This means that, even if they cannot win, one or more simply have to survive until Carol shows up and kills everyone without even trying.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Illusion Protection might not be sufficient against Big Mom's and especially Katakuri's Haki senses and Big Mom's AOEs, especially if anyone tries to take an Infinity Stone away from one of them. Also, OP said that the stones are dimensionally locked and can't be BFR'd, which might prevent the magical pocket trick (or dumping them in the Quantum Realm).

    Also, I'm not sure that Carol has the feats needed to take it to the likes of Katakuri or especially Big Mom, who matched or punked Gear 4 Luffy (IIRC).

  4. #19
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Illusion Protection might not be sufficient against Big Mom's and especially Katakuri's Haki senses and Big Mom's AOEs, especially if anyone tries to take an Infinity Stone away from one of them. Also, OP said that the stones are dimensionally locked and can't be BFR'd, which might prevent the magical pocket trick (or dumping them in the Quantum Realm).
    As the OP I'll clarify this and confirm that stones cannot be sequestered into any kind of pocket dimension or quantum realm. The stones are locked to the battlefield and must remain an in-play element of the field.

    Now Tony could construct a bleeding edge box for them or Katakuri could put one inside his fluid body for example, that would be acceptable.

    But magic chicanery will not work.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    On that point, does anyone have any thoughts on stone distribution between teams and how that might impact things.
    The Power Stone is probably going to be the biggest issue, since the Dimensional Locking will probably prevent the Space Stone from instantly teleporting the person holding it to Vormir (sp?). Especially if it doesn't have a container, or if it somehow hits the ground. If Dr. Strange starts with the Time Stone and actually uses it, then he can possibly solo a speed equalized fight by undoing the opposing side's actions at will.

  6. #21
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    The Power Stone is probably going to be the biggest issue, since the Dimensional Locking will probably prevent the Space Stone from instantly teleporting the person holding it to Vormir (sp?). Especially if it doesn't have a container, or if it somehow hits the ground. If Dr. Strange starts with the Time Stone and actually uses it, then he can possibly solo a speed equalized fight by undoing the opposing side's actions at will.
    Again, I must draw your attention to the parameters of the fight:

    - Each side will have three of six infinity stones distributed amongst their side. The leader/primary antagonist has the Gauntlet itself. The stones cannot be used except in complete concert for a single final snap as a victory condition.
    Emphasis mine.

    The stones are functionally inert outside of the final snap win condition, my query was more who can run the most effective defensive game with the stones or what stone based strategies the opponents have. Remember, the opposing team does not know who has the stone, beyond that the leader cannot be holding it to start.

  7. #22
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I don't know that the "hide me" trick is a BFR thing - but you are the OP, so if it's not allowed, it's not allowed.

    What about Strange doing what he did with the time stone when Maw wanted it? Casting the simple spell but quite unbreakable? Maw couldn't get to it, it wasn't ddumped, etc.

    Assuming that's out, I STILL favor the Avengers in this, because Thor, Cap+Hammer, Strange, Tony and, oh, Pepper would make fantastic keep-away holders. The few flying X-Men want no part of those guys - assuming of course that the Avengers take out Mags at the bell (which of course they would - he's a really big gun here).

    The non-flying Mom squad will just have to pound their fists in rage. There really isn't anything they can do that I remember against those guys flying around in the air, hiding in magic user illusions, and peppering them with ranged attacks, especially when all of the other Avengers are attacking (even though most aren't all that useful against the big guns).

    The HA match... they are still plagued by a dramatic lack of mobility. Team Avenger needs to take out Fubuki and get real spanky on the couple of people with decent ranged attacks, but outside of the Blizzard, there's really nobody who can scratch the paint on, say, Thor while he's airborne.
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  8. #23
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    What about Strange doing what he did with the time stone when Maw wanted it? Casting the simple spell but quite unbreakable? Maw couldn't get to it, it wasn't ddumped, etc.
    You'd have to remind me because I honestly don't remember what you're referring to I'm afraid.

    The non-flying Mom squad will just have to pound their fists in rage. There really isn't anything they can do that I remember against those guys flying around in the air, hiding in magic user illusions, and peppering them with ranged attacks, especially when all of the other Avengers are attacking (even though most aren't all that useful against the big guns).
    Big Mom can fly with the air of Zeus or Prometheus and has a pretty horrendously powerful range game with Ikkoku Sovereignity . Perospero can build huge constructs of candy that requires Class 90+ strength to break near instantly, Daifuku's genie can also fly, Oven can also fly to some degree as I recall, Pudding has a flying carpet as part of her standard equipment and Smoothie can become a giant. Capone also can literally become a big humanoid castle with cannons and armaments so he can also play at range pretty well.

    Big Mom pirates aren't exactly short on options.

    Also, Pudding is a big problem as she can wipe and rewrite memories in combat on the fly which could be a real threat for turning enemies into allies.

    Additionally, Big Mom has Conqueror Haki to drop mobs with and can rip out the life essence of anyone who feels fear toward her and put it into animate objects to fight by her side.

    Oh... man...

    What if Big Mom brings Stormbreaker, Mjolnir or Tony's armours to life as her allies...? That would be pretty entertaining.

    The HA match... they are still plagued by a dramatic lack of mobility. Team Avenger needs to take out Fubuki and get real spanky on the couple of people with decent ranged attacks, but outside of the Blizzard, there's really nobody who can scratch the paint on, say, Thor while he's airborne.
    Gearsper is there as well and, pushed to his maximum, is good for Scarlet Witch level TK albeit his abilities damage him to use them on that level. He could feasibly temporarily ground all of the significant players in team Avengers long enough for suitable opponents to get to thumping range.

    Failing that Fubuki could throw Darkshine, Metal Bat or Puri Puri at Thor perhaps?

  9. #24
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    You'd have to remind me because I honestly don't remember what you're referring to I'm afraid.
    Strange has a spell on the time stone that Maw can't get through at all. He brags about it, despite being entrapped by Maw at that moment and incapable of doing anything. Maw physically burns himself just trying to grab the amulet. Maw then says he'll kill Strange and take it off of his corpse, Strange explains that makes the spell even more impossible to break. This is why Maw kidnaps strange and resorts to torture in the ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Big Mom can fly with the air of Zeus or Prometheus and has a pretty horrendously powerful range game with Ikkoku Sovereignity . Perospero can build huge constructs of candy that requires Class 90+ strength to break near instantly, Daifuku's genie can also fly, Oven can also fly to some degree as I recall, Pudding has a flying carpet as part of her standard equipment and Smoothie can become a giant. Capone also can literally become a big humanoid castle with cannons and armaments so he can also play at range pretty well.

    Big Mom pirates aren't exactly short on options.

    Also, Pudding is a big problem as she can wipe and rewrite memories in combat on the fly which could be a real threat for turning enemies into allies.

    Additionally, Big Mom has Conqueror Haki to drop mobs with and can rip out the life essence of anyone who feels fear toward her and put it into animate objects to fight by her side.

    Oh... man...

    What if Big Mom brings Stormbreaker, Mjolnir or Tony's armours to life as her allies...? That would be pretty entertaining.
    Yeah, I'm not nearly expert enough on Big Mom's crew to be honest, so I clearly don't recall a lot of what they can do. They might well be too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Gearsper is there as well and, pushed to his maximum, is good for Scarlet Witch level TK albeit his abilities damage him to use them on that level. He could feasibly temporarily ground all of the significant players in team Avengers long enough for suitable opponents to get to thumping range.

    Failing that Fubuki could throw Darkshine, Metal Bat or Puri Puri at Thor perhaps?


    I still think that the HA team will come up short. Thor, just all by his lonesome, will take out any of Darkshine, Bat or Puri Puri. Assuming no CIS (which he really doesn't have in combat - not insta-killing Thanos was pure PIS, not CIS), he's not going to hesitate to kill these guys. They are all hard to put down, but he's extremely skilled, very mobile, as durable or more than even Darkshine, and has a one-shot weapon. The team has a lot of options, S-class heroes are no joke and the "extras" here are dangerous as well, I just don't think it will be enough. If it were Fubuki, PPP, MB, SADS, and the rest just against Thor, Tony, Wanda and Strange? Maybe, sure. Because that sets up double, triple and multi-teaming to take them out. That's not the case. Here, the Avengers team gets 15 minutes for dozens of wizards, Tony with multiple suits of armor to tinker or re-program or plan, all kinds of stuff. And a lot of the HA guys are human enough in durability to where they are one-shot material.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
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  10. #25
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    I think Storm taking out dozens of Sentinels with Lightning is better than Thors control of lightning.

    They were flying at higher speeds than the Chutari drones/Space Whales and they were more accurate imo.

    I don't think Thor cancels her Lightning or other abilities as easily as some think he does here.

    Overall I think the X Crew in fight 1 take it overall even without Jean/Prof X as people like Blink/Nightcrawler and others are underrated alot.
    Last edited by Darth Drizzle; 04-13-2021 at 03:36 PM.
    And with that the rest of the Domino's will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

  11. #26
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    I think Storm taking out dozens of Sentinels with Lightning is better than Thors control of lightning.

    They were flying at higher speeds than the Chutari drones/Space Whales and they were more accurate imo.

    I don't think Thor cancels her Lightning or other abilities as easily as some think he does here.

    Overall I think the X Crew in fight 1 take it overall even without Jean/Prof X as people like Blink/Nightcrawler and others are underrated alot.
    You have two people in the Avengers side who are immune to lightning, one who canonically becomes stronger when hit by it, and another one who appears 15 minutes in who considers *everything* the X-men can throw (and that includes Mags) as mere tickles at most. They are most certainly not taking Fight 1.

  12. #27
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    You have two people in the Avengers side who are immune to lightning, one who canonically becomes stronger when hit by it, and another one who appears 15 minutes in who considers *everything* the X-men can throw (and that includes Mags) as mere tickles at most. They are most certainly not taking Fight 1.
    If they could wrest the Infinity Stones from their holders in under 15 minute though, they could go for the snap victory condition.

    If Magneto grabs everything metal on the field (Stormbreaker, Mjolnir, Tony, Pepper, Black Panther and all weaponry or metal clothing etc.) and smushes it together at the bell, Blink and Nightcrawler could feasibly teleport in and grab the stones from their holders and get them to Logan for the snap victory.

  13. #28
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Strange has a spell on the time stone that Maw can't get through at all. He brags about it, despite being entrapped by Maw at that moment and incapable of doing anything. Maw physically burns himself just trying to grab the amulet. Maw then says he'll kill Strange and take it off of his corpse, Strange explains that makes the spell even more impossible to break. This is why Maw kidnaps strange and resorts to torture in the ship.
    Hmm, slightly depends on how easy it is for him to cast the spell in a firefight. I take it we don't see him do it in the film?

    Here, the Avengers team gets 15 minutes for dozens of wizards, Tony with multiple suits of armor to tinker or re-program or plan, all kinds of stuff.
    I will note that the 15 minutes is for discussion and passing out stones only. Tony isn't allowed to rebuild or reprogram his or Pepper's armour, wizards are not allowed to cast any spells that were not in play at the start of the conflict in the film itself.

  14. #29
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    I don't recall seeing him cast any kind of protective spell on the Eye during the movie. It's likely some kind of enchantment on the actual casing of the Infinity Stone (the Eye of Agamotto casing, so to speak).

    That's rather in keeping with the Eye being a 'mystic artifact' that's for use of the Sorcerer Supreme.
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  15. #30
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    You have two people in the Avengers side who are immune to lightning, one who canonically becomes stronger when hit by it, and another one who appears 15 minutes in who considers *everything* the X-men can throw (and that includes Mags) as mere tickles at most. They are most certainly not taking Fight 1.
    I didn't say Storm would/could solo the Avengers or even that the X Men win in a straight up fight(especially without their big guns here).

    I said that Storm has a great control over lightning(which she does) and that the teleporters are being underestimated. With Magneto running interference by messing with all of their important metal weapons/items and Storm defending against AOE Lightning attacks the teleporters have a great chance at taking away the stones and giving them to their team ftw.
    And with that the rest of the Domino's will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

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