Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 137
  1. #31
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    DC never rejected the source material. DC cut up with the modern source material.
    If you think the DC source material came from the Mirror universe, than yeah.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    And keep in mind, I never said it was a bad tone, or that it was a tone I didn't like, or that it wasn't a tone that's found massive success. I've only said it's the same tone.
    That's exactly what I was referring to. I'll ask you to think about the question, rather than answer it for you. It is, after all, for you to discover.

  3. #33
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    That's exactly what I was referring to. I'll ask you to think about the question, rather than answer it for you. It is, after all, for you to discover.
    Yeah no - I already know myself very well, and highly doubt that my opinion reveals what you think it reveals about me, so I literally can't discover it on my own. How can I discover something that is in all probability just your opinion of me that exists in your own mind?

    The MCU movies, to me, all share such a huge tonal similarity that they all feel "samey" to me personally. All that reveals about me is that I have a different experience with and opinion of these movies than some other people have. It's not exactly a damning thing.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,152

    Default

    I've more or less enjoyed everything Marvel has done, film wise. Thor: The Dark World being the only exception. It's a bad movie, and being Marvel doesn't change that. I think the Netflix Daredevil is a borderline masterpiece, hampered by having to stretch to 13 episodes what should have been about 8 episode seasons. But even with it's pacing issues, it's easily my favorite Marvel production ever. (For the sake of revealing my biases, DD is also my favorite comic book character of all time, so I'm not sure my opinion on his show is suprising. Though the Affleck film was dreadful, so it isn't just love of the character carrying the weight.) Otherwise, the Captain America films, Thor Ragnarok, Ant-Man and the Wasp and the two Guardians films are my favorites. The rest of Netflix Marvel is a mixed bag. Liked Luke Cage, thought Iron Fist was weak sauce (though S2 was better, in any event), and the only season of Jessica Jones I really liked was the second even though David Tennant did his best to carry the first.

    On the DC side, I adore Nolan's bat-films. But the Snyder-verse leaves me cold. I enjoyed Man of Steel, despite some of the common issues with that film. Absolutely fantastic casting across the board, and some excellent performances that do the heavy lifting against a weak script. But literally ALL of it's problems are exacerbated and built upon by Beavis and JL, which weakens it in hindsight. Beavis is a great Millar's Dark Knight-verse film wrapped around a deeply mediocre Superman film. The worst Lex Luthor ever, a flat out terrible script. The rest of the cast tries, meaningfully, to elevate it but falls short. But it LOOKS beautiful. Gotta give Snyder props on his visuals. I have issues with him everywhere else, but he has a knack for the visual set piece. Snyder's JL cut is overly long, obviously, and introduces it's own issues. But was honestly an ok film. Not really "fun", but at least worth a watch. I do think it's a shame that the Cyborg plot was cut from the original theatrical release, as it really does provide the core the film needed to hang itself on.

    On the other hand, I enjoyed both WW and WW84 well enough. I honestly prefer the second film, with all it's issues, as the first edges towards boredom in the final act. Aquaman was genuinely fun. It may not be a masterpiece of film, and it's certainly not my favorite take on Aquaman, but it was entertaining and kept my attention. Suicide Squad is a mess, a legitimately bad movie and I absolutely loathed Robbie's Harley. But Birds of Prey was tons of fun, and found whatever SS had been missing in the alchemy of Harley Quinn, because I really liked her there. And Shazam is brilliant. It doesn't try to be anything more than simple, heartwarming fun and it knocks it out of the park the whole way through. Zachary Levi as the Cheese may be the best casting in a superhero film since Chris Evans as Steve Rogers.

    And Joker. I loved Joker. I think it's a problematic movie about problematic subjects, and I'm not wild about even setting it in some variation of the DC universe. The movie would have been brilliant if it had nothing to do with the Joker, and had otherwise been the same movie with the same conclusion. But yeah, a powerhouse of a film.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    7,711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I agree that the plots had nothing in common. Very different plots. I disagree that they were tonally all that different. I felt the exact same watching those movies as regards the style of humor, lightness, brevity, pacing, and action. Tonally they we're about as different as noon vs one in the afternoon. At least to me in my opinion. You may think they felt like wildly different movies, but I think the only difference was in plot and scope (Winter Soldier and BP felt like bigger scope movies). Not the same thing as tone though.
    I don't agree at all. Ant-man is an action comedy, Black Panther is not. GoTG is an action comedy while Winter Soldier is not.

    I can't say they have the same tone when Ant-man is very light but Black Panther is rather dour. But we will agree to disagree.

    But I like Marvel to continue doing they're doing because of the variety. Like stuff like Falcon and the Winter Soldier dealing with very serious issues from racism to far-left terrorism while Loki looks like some time travelling fantasy adventure.
    Last edited by Username taken; 04-12-2021 at 12:12 AM.
    Black Lives Matter.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1,834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I agree that the plots had nothing in common. Very different plots. I disagree that they were tonally all that different. I felt the exact same watching those movies as regards the style of humor, lightness, brevity, pacing, and action. Tonally they we're about as different as noon vs one in the afternoon. .
    It hurts my heart when sometimes some just dont want to admit the obvious. even if they dont want to admit MCU movies are all the same in a factory process way, surely they can at least see how the MCU Spiderman films don't feel like a progression of the Sam Raimi movies, in contrast to the Burton and Nolan Batman films, instead new Spiderman movies feels more like a re-stapling of a formula.

    At least to me in my opinion. You may think they felt like wildly different movies, but I think the only difference was in plot and scope
    I never underestimate opinions, mostly when the opinions seems pretty logical, sound and many times based on many good metrics. you know we can still say out loud if we were in a public debate.

    (Winter Soldier and BP felt like bigger scope movies). Not the same thing as tone though
    These movies don't feel big in scope., they felt more stand alone, the issue with this movie is that the individual stories could have been much more impressive.

    I dont need to redo a talk of black panther on how generic the plot was without any real big plotline of prejudice, racism or discrimination , because I have already done it already and surely Kevin Fiege must have seen other spy movies like Daniel Craig James Bond or the Borne Supremacy series to come up with a more compelling spy drama than he did with winter solider. MCU basic story telling is what I dislike the most in comic films. at this point, I rather choose a messy though complicated story arc than a basic one.

    This is the reason although I enjoy many new war dramas like 1917 and think they are among the best made war films, no way am I choosing that over The Bridge on the River Kwai. it is the same metrics I am using with comic films too.
    Last edited by Castle; 04-12-2021 at 12:40 AM.

  7. #37
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't agree at all. Ant-man is an action comedy, Black Panther is not. GoTG is an action comedy while Winter Soldier is not.

    I can't say they have the same tone when Ant-man is very light but Black Panther is rather dour. But we will agree to disagree.

    But I like Marvel to continue doing they're doing because of the variety. Like stuff like Falcon and the Winter Soldier dealing with very serious issues from racism to far-left terrorism while Loki looks like some time travelling fantasy adventure.
    I've seen dour movies, the Black Panther is not a dour movie. It has a couple dour scenes, but the movie overall is not even close to being dour.

    The Winter Soldier might not lean into the comedic elements like GotG does, but it still has that classic MCU comedic core that all their films have.

    I agree that I want Marvel to continue, but I'm not gonna lie and say they're delivering variety. They're not. They're delivering the same product, every time. But it is a reliably good product. There's worse things to be than the same. They could be bad. They're not. The MCU chose quality over variety, that's not a terrible choice as long as other studios make content in this space to provide variety.

  8. #38
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    It hurts my heart when sometimes some just dont want to admit the obvious. even if they dont want to admit MCU movies are all the same in a factory process way, surely they can at least see how the MCU Spiderman films don't feel like a progression of the Sam Raimi movies, in contrast to the Burton and Nolan Batman films, instead new Spiderman movies feels more like a re-stapling of a formula.



    I never underestimate opinions, mostly when the opinions seems pretty logical, sound and many times based on many good metrics. you know we can still say out loud if we were in a public debate.



    These movies don't feel big in scope., they felt more stand alone, the issue with this movie is that the individual stories could have been much more impressive.

    I dont need to redo a talk of black panther on how generic the plot was without any real big plotline of prejudice, racism or discrimination , because I have already done it already and surely Kevin Fiege must have seen other spy movies like Daniel Craig James Bond or the Borne Supremacy series to come up with a more compelling spy drama than he did with winter solider. MCU basic story telling is what I dislike the most in comic films. at this point, I rather choose a messy though complicated story arc than a basic one.

    This is the reason although I enjoy many new war dramas like 1917 and think they are among the best made war films, no way am I choosing that over The Bridge on the River Kwai. it is the same metrics I am using with comic films too.
    What exactly do you mean by "progression"? Curious because since those movies are different continuities made by different filmmakers, they're not story progression or necessarily evolution of someone's style.

    And maybe it's that they're more standalone that makes them feel bigger in scope to me. I don't know.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    7,711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I've seen dour movies, the Black Panther is not a dour movie. It has a couple dour scenes, but the movie overall is not even close to being dour.

    The Winter Soldier might not lean into the comedic elements like GotG does, but it still has that classic MCU comedic core that all their films have.

    I agree that I want Marvel to continue, but I'm not gonna lie and say they're delivering variety. They're not. They're delivering the same product, every time. But it is a reliably good product. There's worse things to be than the same. They could be bad. They're not. The MCU chose quality over variety, that's not a terrible choice as long as other studios make content in this space to provide variety.
    Fair enough.

    We will agree to disagree.
    Black Lives Matter.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    6,490

    Default

    I didn't think the humor in CA2 was at all like GotG.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    7,711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I didn't think the humor in CA2 was at all like GotG.
    I don't even recall ANY humor CA2 outside of Steve saying he's already seen Wargames.

    Even the "on your left" phrase wasn't GoTG type humor.
    Black Lives Matter.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    6,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't even recall ANY humor CA2 outside of Steve saying he's already seen Wargames.

    Even the "on your left" phrase wasn't GoTG type humor.
    There were a few moments of Nat trying to get Steve to date, but that's about what I remember, and it wasn't GotG style.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    8,216

    Default

    Personally, I've liked a lot of stuff from both (although I'm somewhat more partial to the Marvel characters). I do find that I tend to like DC animation more, while I think Marvel has been doing better on the big screen (although Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey would have slots on my "favorite comic book movies" list); the MCU is a juggernaut for a reason, I love the original Spider-Man movies (and Spider-Verse) and am sad that the Fox X-Men series ended (as inconsistent as it was).

    Looking forward to stuff that's coming out from both studios (although I think I want a Jessica Cruz Green Lantern movie more then anything else).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #44
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1,834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What exactly do you mean by "progression"? Curious because since those movies are different continuities made by different filmmakers, they're not story progression or necessarily evolution of someone's style.

    And maybe it's that they're more standalone that makes them feel bigger in scope to me. I don't know.
    Progression just means the next step, the next development, the next new ideas, to something we have not seen before with the character. What Sam Raimi did with Spiderman that I liked as a marvel film is that he let Spiderman progress as a hero and character. After Spiderman 1 , he should never have been in high school again in any other spiderman film, that was a step back that Amazing Spiderman and MCU Spiderman movies did.

    Sam Raimi Spiderman hard already tackled many adult and compelling themes, every next Spiderman film should have progressed from that not gone backward by making spiderman a small kid in high school who does not know his left from right , who needs to be be spoon fed by anyone or some emo angst kid as Andrew Garfield played him

    Spiderverse is a better example of progression of the character of peter, compared to the Raimi films, because the last time we saw Peter in Spiderman 3, he and mary jane were at a breaking point and were just repairing their relationship. so seeing Spiderman/Peter in spiderverse as a now washed up hero, fighting to be Spiderman again and wanting to save his marriage to mary jane, was progression of the character on film....general film.

    What exactly do you mean by "progression"? Curious because since those movies are different continuities made by different filmmakers, they're not story progression or necessarily evolution of someone's style.
    I am very pin point of film makers because I think film makers have a big responsibility to look at the past films of franchises they are now directing and see how they can take further steps in doing better.

    Chris Nolan did this, by letting good Batman films graduate from the gothic Tim Burton vibe to a more grounded world with realism

    There is not one live action Spiderman film since the sam raimi films that has ever done this.
    Last edited by Castle; 04-13-2021 at 06:36 AM.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,042

    Default

    Did "Thor" and "Thor: Ragnarok" have the same tone? I thought all the bru-haha over Ragnarok was that it was a departure. Some hated it, some loved it, but almost everyone seemed to understand they were not the same tone.

    I understand that there's a certain tone to most of the MCU films, but I'm personally fine with it - they wanted it to be consistent enough so that it wouldn't be too weird when they'd crossover or meet up. I mean, are mainstream Marvel and DC superhero comic books all that different in tone from one another anyway?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •