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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Did "Thor" and "Thor: Ragnarok" have the same tone? I thought all the bru-haha over Ragnarok was that it was a departure. Some hated it, some loved it, but almost everyone seemed to understand they were not the same tone.

    I understand that there's a certain tone to most of the MCU films, but I'm personally fine with it - they wanted it to be consistent enough so that it wouldn't be too weird when they'd crossover or meet up. I mean, are mainstream Marvel and DC superhero comic books all that different in tone from one another anyway?
    Depends on the writer, I presume

  2. #47
    Fantastic Member ERON's Avatar
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    LOVE
    Batman '66
    Superman
    Superman II
    Batman '89
    Batman Returns
    Batman Forever
    Batman & Robin
    Spider-Man
    Spider-Man 2
    Spider-Man 3
    Watchmen

    LIKE
    Iron Man
    Thor
    Thor: Ragnarok
    Captain America: The First Avenger
    Captain America: Civil War
    Avengers
    Avengers: Infinity War
    Avengers: Endgame
    Guardians of the Galaxy
    Guardians of the Galaxy 2
    Doctor Strange
    Spider-Man: Far From Home
    Howard the Duck
    X-Men
    X-2

    HATE
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  3. #48
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Did "Thor" and "Thor: Ragnarok" have the same tone? I thought all the bru-haha over Ragnarok was that it was a departure. Some hated it, some loved it, but almost everyone seemed to understand they were not the same tone.

    I understand that there's a certain tone to most of the MCU films, but I'm personally fine with it - they wanted it to be consistent enough so that it wouldn't be too weird when they'd crossover or meet up. I mean, are mainstream Marvel and DC superhero comic books all that different in tone from one another anyway?

    Phase 1 Marvel was the best marvel got with been creative. Thor, Iron Man 1, Hulk and Captain America were not 100% identical in tone or film style, maybe it was not as drastic as telling apart a Sony Spiderman film from Sam Raimi to a Bryan Singer X-Men film but phase 1 marvel was the most variety of MCU.

    Now imagine if we ever got to see Edward Norton and RDJ go at it? this was a good step up for that to what we see now.


  4. #49
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    Phase 1 was not the most variety in the MCU

  5. #50
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Progression just means the next step, the next development, the next new ideas, to something we have not seen before with the character. What Sam Raimi did with Spiderman that I liked as a marvel film is that he let Spiderman progress as a hero and character. After Spiderman 1 , he should never have been in high school again in any other spiderman film, that was a step back that Amazing Spiderman and MCU Spiderman movies did.

    Sam Raimi Spiderman hard already tackled many adult and compelling themes, every next Spiderman film should have progressed from that not gone backward by making spiderman a small kid in high school who does not know his left from right , who needs to be be spoon fed by anyone or some emo angst kid as Andrew Garfield played him
    I kind of disagree with this - Peter was in high school for all of 5 minutes in Spider-Man 1. It's not a regression for reboots to go back and try telling stories in that era. There's a lot of story potential there that Raimi didn't tap into. Spider-Man 1 does not in any way count as one of Spider-Man's "high school era" stories.

    That said after ASM and MCU yeah, High School Petey's been done, move on. But even then I wouldn't say no more high school stories ever again. Maybe not in the next 20 years or so, but eventually when it'd feel new again perhaps. Especially since neither ASM or MCU did high school Spider-Man well in my opinion (did none of these creators watch an episode of Spectacular Spider-Man?).

    Spiderverse is a better example of progression of the character of peter, compared to the Raimi films, because the last time we saw Peter in Spiderman 3, he and mary jane were at a breaking point and were just repairing their relationship. so seeing Spiderman/Peter in spiderverse as a now washed up hero, fighting to be Spiderman again and wanting to save his marriage to mary jane, was progression of the character on film....general film.
    While I'm against the idea that films need to carry over or explore or evolve the themes of previous continuities in any way (Spider-Man having relationship problems in 3 does not mean he should be separated in Spider-Verse), I do agree that filmmaker's wanting to explore different themes in their own films is generally a great thing and a net positive for us as viewers.

    I am very pin point of film makers because I think film makers have a big responsibility to look at the past films of franchises they are now directing and see how they can take further steps in doing better.
    Perhaps, but I think filmmakers have a bigger responsibility to deliver a unique vision and compelling story - to try and make a film that only they can make. They may re-explore old themes, retell old stories, but do so in their own unique way and deliver a masterpiece. Artistic vision in my opinion counts for more than progressing or evolving from any previous entry in a franchise. A lot of people say that Todd Phillips basically ripped Taxi Driver and maybe The Comedian for his Joker movie. I don't know if there's any truth to that, I've never seen those other two movies, but if true that means Phillips didn't really progress much. That doesn't stop JOKER from being a truly stellar film and one of my favorites of the last decade. He had a vision and it was glorious.

    Chris Nolan did this, by letting good Batman films graduate from the gothic Tim Burton vibe to a more grounded world with realism
    But Nolan and Burton both made Batman origin movies (Batman, Batman Begins), both followed up with a movie still set early in Batman's career (Batman Returns, The Dark Knight). Matt Reeves is also making a movie set in Batman's early days/year two (The Batman), and seems to be going with Nolan's "more grounded world with realism" but it looks amazing so far.

    There is not one live action Spiderman film since the sam raimi films that has ever done this.
    Agreed. We haven't had a great live action Spider-Man since Spider-Man 2 back in 2004! 17 years is a long time...thank god for animation!


    I don't know if I agree with you on progression, but I think I know what you mean now, and while I might not fully agree with it it doesn't seem bad at all either and gives something to really think about. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Did "Thor" and "Thor: Ragnarok" have the same tone? I thought all the bru-haha over Ragnarok was that it was a departure. Some hated it, some loved it, but almost everyone seemed to understand they were not the same tone.

    I understand that there's a certain tone to most of the MCU films, but I'm personally fine with it - they wanted it to be consistent enough so that it wouldn't be too weird when they'd crossover or meet up. I mean, are mainstream Marvel and DC superhero comic books all that different in tone from one another anyway?
    Phase 1 was different. I don't know if it was the success of The Avengers, the Disney buyout, or just them finalizing the formula, but it was after that point in which the strong sense of "sameness" started pervading all their films.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Phase 1 was not the most variety in the MCU
    Disagree. Strong disagree. I 110% disagree.

  6. #51
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    Really? I feel Phase 3 had way more variety. Phase 1 was still mostly basic origin stories, albeit fairly well done for the most part.

  7. #52
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Really? I feel Phase 3 had way more variety. Phase 1 was still mostly basic origin stories, albeit fairly well done for the most part.
    Origin stories that differed in tone. Phase 3 might not have had as many origin stories, but that was once the MCU had figured out how to make sure every movie felt the same. So it's variety of tones vs a variety of stories. Phase 1 had more of the former, later phases more of the latter. Ideally we'd have a variety of tones and stories, but that's what non-MCU movies are for. Just hoping that DC, Sony, and others step up their game on delivering quality to help balance out the tone thing more.

  8. #53
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    Love re-watched numerous times

    Infinity War
    GOTG
    Ragnarok

    Like re-watched more than twice

    Batman Returns
    Dark Knight
    Batman Begins
    Spider-Man 2
    Winter Soldier
    Thor
    Avengers Endgame
    GOTG Vol 2

    Meh only watched once

    The Rest of the MCU movies
    Wonder Woman
    Man of Steel
    BVS
    JL
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2

    Never watched

    Aquaman
    Shazam
    Spider-Man Homecoming & FFH
    WW84

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Origin stories that differed in tone. Phase 3 might not have had as many origin stories, but that was once the MCU had figured out how to make sure every movie felt the same. So it's variety of tones vs a variety of stories. Phase 1 had more of the former, later phases more of the latter. Ideally we'd have a variety of tones and stories, but that's what non-MCU movies are for. Just hoping that DC, Sony, and others step up their game on delivering quality to help balance out the tone thing more.
    I still don't know what you mean by varied in tone. IMO Civil war, Dr. Strange, Ragnarok, GotG3, Ant-Man and Wasp, Infinity War, Captain Marvel and endgame were nothing alike in tone

    I've had plenty of other criticisms of these movies, but not that

  10. #55
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I still don't know what you mean by varied in tone. IMO Civil war, Dr. Strange, Ragnarok, GotG3, Ant-Man and Wasp, Infinity War, Captain Marvel and endgame were nothing alike in tone

    I've had plenty of other criticisms of these movies, but not that
    Agree to disagree - they felt very similar to me, with the typical MCU style "witty retorts a mile a minute" dialog, but if they felt like wildly different and varied tones to you, then hey that's great for you. But they definitely have a "samey" feel for me, and I'm not alone in feeling that.

    I mean, is it a big deal? So the MCU has flaws and imperfections, a lack of tonal variety chief among them, that doesn't stop it from being a very entertaining and successful juggernaut. In my opinion, the MCU is lacking in tonal variety, but I'm still eager to watch every film despite the samey-ness, so who cares? Certainly not Marvel Studios or Disney as they laugh all the way to the bank on that tone.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Agree to disagree - they felt very similar to me, with the typical MCU style "witty retorts a mile a minute" dialog, but if they felt like wildly different and varied tones to you, then hey that's great for you. But they definitely have a "samey" feel for me, and I'm not alone in feeling that.

    I mean, is it a big deal? So the MCU has flaws and imperfections, a lack of tonal variety chief among them, that doesn't stop it from being a very entertaining and successful juggernaut. In my opinion, the MCU is lacking in tonal variety, but I'm still eager to watch every film despite the samey-ness, so who cares? Certainly not Marvel Studios or Disney as they laugh all the way to the bank on that tone.
    Well, I think the MCU can definitely improve. There are still problems which could be fixed, and I always like to see the movies fix their mistakes. But I don't think tonal variety is a major one.

  12. #57
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Well, I think the MCU can definitely improve. There are still problems which could be fixed, and I always like to see the movies fix their mistakes. But I don't think tonal variety is a major one.
    Which flaws do you think they could work on?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Which flaws do you think they could work on?
    Every movie always building up to a big battle. IMO the final act doesn't always need to be epic. It could be something emotional. Plus, I feel thr heroes need to motivate the plots more

    Also, sometimes the jokes, while funny, can interrupt serious moments.

    Some of the power levels are a bit inconsistent.

    And the soundtracks need to be a little more memorable.

    Personally, I feel the costume colors have become a bit dull. But that might be more subjective

    I think diversity is improving but needs work. The female heroes don't interact with each other enough, and there aren't many PoC or interracial couples.

    Romance in general needs to be better in the MCU. Most of them suck. Either commit to the couples, or drop thr romance all together

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post

    Romance in general needs to be better in the MCU. Most of them suck. Either commit to the couples, or drop thr romance all together
    Honestly, the only couples in the MCU who felt remotely like actual, workable romances in the films were Tony and Pepper and Hank and Jan. And the latter was more about mood, since she didn't have a literal presence until the end of AMaW. I would include Wanda and Vision finally, after their Disney+ run. Even Steve and Peggy really only work because they're doomed, Endgame notwithstanding.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    Honestly, the only couples in the MCU who felt remotely like actual, workable romances in the films were Tony and Pepper and Hank and Jan. And the latter was more about mood, since she didn't have a literal presence until the end of AMaW. I would include Wanda and Vision finally, after their Disney+ run. Even Steve and Peggy really only work because they're doomed, Endgame notwithstanding.
    Steve and Peggy had chemistry but never really had a romance, so I didn't believe his ending in Endgame. Hank and Jan work, but Scott and Hope didn't at all. Wanda and Vision were pretty good in WandaVision. Every other romance aside from Tony and Pepper was absolutely pointless. One thing Captain Marvel did right was have no romance. I hope that's a bigger trend going forward

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