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  1. #1
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    Default Pros and Cons of Superman Not Being In A Shared Universe

    I made a similar thread for the Wonder Woman forum, so I figured I'd make one for Superman too. Discuss the pros and cons of Superman and his cast being in a universe unconnected to superheroes outside of the Superman world.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Pro. Batman fand Superman wouldn't be pitted as enemies.

    Con. Batman and Superman wouldn't be friends.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Pro - When Brainiac invaded Earth Superman wouldn't need to become a JL title.

    Con - We would miss a lot of good character interactions.

  4. #4
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    the good
    1: superman would be a hero.
    2: superman's enemies would be superman's enemies.
    3: superman would be his own character, not a part of another.
    4: superman would stop being a tool to make other heroes great.
    5: the stories would have real consequences (you can't destroy the us without it being carved out in every dc comic.)

    The bad.
    1: nothing.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Pro. Batman fand Superman wouldn't be pitted as enemies.

    Con. Batman and Superman wouldn't be friends.
    This would be the main one, not just for these two but for a lot of the superheroes in general. If we're not getting the World's Finest BFFs I'm not interested in them sharing space, but I would still feel like an important component was missing (Ditto Trinity friendship even if I could happily do without pairing Diana up with either).

    Another benefit would be Superman actually being allowed to be the Man of Tomorrow and influence change in the world for the better. It wouldn't have to worry about the status quos of other heroes and IPs save the Legion, which was designed to work along with this set up

  6. #6
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    If people want batman so badly for superman.Making it's own batman would be adequate.If superman needs "Rival" character.A vegeta,if you will.Making one for the ip would be better alternative.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    The “A-Listers” could be taken out of a shared universe and work perfectly fine. In DC’s case they were all created to exist independently on their own anyway. It’s the lesser known characters, your Blue Beetles, your Green Arrows, who benefit from being in the shared universe with Batman & Superman. Marvel would be hurt far more by it imo (aside form the mutants) since they were built as a shared universe pretty much right off the bat. That said:

    Good
    1. No more Supes getting beat up or turning evil to service other characters (looking at you Bats)
    2. Forces writers to focus on Superman, Metropolis, the Superfamily, his Rogues, and his supporting cast because that’s all you get. No more bringing in Batman for technobabble, they’d have to use Steel or Kelex and I think that would be a good thing. More focus on what Metropolis is like, journalism investigations, etc
    3. He could live up to the hype of being “the greatest” when he’s the only major hero (Kara, Kon, and others aside)
    4. They could make use of his intelligence. A lot of writers usually make him dumb/naive because otherwise ethereal worries he’d overshadow characters who rely more on intellect such as Bats, Mr. Terrific, etc. If he’s the only one then that’s not a big concern

    Bad
    1. When done well his interactions with other heroes are fun to read, Batman, WW as friends and peers, the younger gens who look up to him, the older gens who respect or envy him
    2. Being on the Justice League is a big deal, and Clark leaving permanently would hurt his status
    3. Without the presence of other heroes in other niches there’s a worry his stories might become too homogenized. Would there still be a place for magic stuff if he didn’t live in a world with Diana, Zatanna, and others?

    I still lean more towards him being on his own as a good thing, so many of his best stories take place outside the mainline, but I do admit he’d lose quite a few storytelling possibilities as well
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Another benefit would be Superman actually being allowed to be the Man of Tomorrow and influence change in the world for the better. It wouldn't have to worry about the status quos of other heroes and IPs save the Legion, which was designed to work along with this set up
    I don't think his lack of real impact is because he lives in a shared universe (even if that's also a factor). I think it's more because DC wants to keep the world more or less ecognizable as our own, and I don't think that'd change if he wasn't part of the shared universe.

    Anyway:

    Pros:

    - He could be treated as a well rounded hero instead of just a powerful dude. Even if he isn't, then the ones benefitted by the specializations Superman wouldn't have would be members of the supporting cast rather than other superheroes.
    - Less of a chance of him turning evil so other heroes can look better. Even if he is turned evil, then it would be in the benefit of the supporting cast.
    - Speaking of the supporting cast, it would force the creative teams to develop them further.

    Cons:

    - Missing on a lot of character relationships. Superman and Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, Superman and Martian Manhunter, Kon El and Young Justice, Jon Kent and Damian Wayne, etc.
    - Less developed cosmic and mystic settings for his adventures.
    - No team appearences to hold you over if the solo titles are underwhelming at some point in time.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    I don't think his lack of real impact is because he lives in a shared universe (even if that's also a factor). I think it's more because DC wants to keep the world more or less ecognizable as our own, and I don't think that'd change if he wasn't part of the shared universe.
    I don't think it would automatically change, but I think the odds of it would increase somewhat. A major reason "Status Quo is God" happens in the shared universe because it's difficult to coordinate across all the IPs, and some would either be impacted by what is happening to another or would have to ignore it and would effectively be out of main continuity anyway.

    Like in New X-Men where it when mutant culture was changing and it was established that eventually everyone on Earth would be a mutant, but as soon as Morrison left Marvel moved heaven and Earth to prevent and undo that radical change. Which makes sense as it puts the rest of the MU on the spot to take it into account, but wasn't fair for the X-Men

  10. #10
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    I don't think his lack of real impact is because he lives in a shared universe (even if that's also a factor). I think it's more because DC wants to keep the world more or less ecognizable as our own, and I don't think that'd change if he wasn't part of the shared universe.

    Anyway:

    Pros:

    - He could be treated as a well rounded hero instead of just a powerful dude. Even if he isn't, then the ones benefitted by the specializations Superman wouldn't have would be members of the supporting cast rather than other superheroes.
    - Less of a chance of him turning evil so other heroes can look better. Even if he is turned evil, then it would be in the benefit of the supporting cast.
    - Speaking of the supporting cast, it would force the creative teams to develop them further.

    Cons:

    - Missing on a lot of character relationships. Superman and Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, Superman and Martian Manhunter, Kon El and Young Justice, Jon Kent and Damian Wayne, etc.
    - Less developed cosmic and mystic settings for his adventures.
    - No team appearences to hold you over if the solo titles are underwhelming at some point in time.
    Maybe Supergirl could finally grow up.

  11. #11
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    if the superverse becomes a land of its own it has everything to gain and nothing to lose. Superman's relationship with the rest of the DC universe has not contributed anything for a long time, it only hurts the character. a proper superverse would give the opportunity for a real development. the trinity would be superman, supergirl and superboy, easily his relationship with the 2 could be the same as he has with ww (only friendship) and batman. EL's house would become the new league, one in which superman is not alone to magnify the rest of the JL. the rest of the heroes of metropolis would have their space. not forgetting the villains, lex is together with the joker the most important villain of dc, brainiac is the most important planetary villain of dc, darkseid (first appearance in superverse) is the cosmic villain of dc, not forgetting Mxyzptlk , a villain who allows all kinds of stories.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    A person is given more definition for each world view they are pit against; every interaction further refines your sense of identity.

    Reducing Clark's world reduces Clark himself. The sour grapes we have as a result of every narrative not revolving around him isn't worth losing all the wonderful stories and interactions only possible from a shared universe. I will not lose my World's Finest stories with Clark, Bruce and Dick just because corporate greed means we must pander to braindead fanboys.

  13. #13
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    Pro: A larger Superman Universe. Unlike the DCU where space is filled with Green Lanterns. Hawkpeople, Tamaranians ; you would get a universe built with Superman as the center. And the Lanterns wouldn't be poaching guys like Mongul.
    Con: Smaller Superman Universe. Without other franchises to add alien races we might have less alien races.

    Pro: Superman story arcs wouldn't be hi-jacked to connect to endless linewide crossovers.
    Con: Superman epics would either be less often or we'd get nothing but epics (when everything is important then nothing is important

    Pro: Superman could be the top hero without having to make exceptions for other families (Flash's speed, Amazon's as ultimate female archetypes, Green Lanterns as interstellar champions)
    Con: Without other characters having regular "best showings" Superman might not feel the need to grow more powerful to keep up.

    Pro: A tighter Superfamily as we don't need to have a member on each team book.
    Con: Without other families the characters might not be able to support as many books.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    A person is given more definition for each world view they are pit against; every interaction further refines your sense of identity.

    Reducing Clark's world reduces Clark himself. The sour grapes we have as a result of every narrative not revolving around him isn't worth losing all the wonderful stories and interactions only possible from a shared universe. I will not lose my World's Finest stories with Clark, Bruce and Dick just because corporate greed means we must pander to braindead fanboys.
    But would the lack of a shared universe mean that we lose the "World's Finest" or that Superman teams up more with say Gangbuster or Guardian to create a different version of those type of tales? If Superman had been more fully integrated to the Silver Age DCU might we have lost the Legion as Supergirl became part of the Titans instead and Superman in his solo titles made more use of the JLA in place of the Legion? Picture Wonder Woman in place of Saturn Girl in that Silver Age story where Supergirl was trying to paly matchmaker. Or Flash and Green Lantern rather than the Legion carrying out Superman's "to do list" in the Silver Age "Last Days of Superman".

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Maybe Supergirl could finally grow up.
    How old is she now?

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