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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Yeah, I think I got that idea from a story where the Flash had to save Superman from Livewire.
    Wasn't that a Supergirl episode?

  2. #62
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Wasn't that a Supergirl episode?
    Maybe that too but the one I'm thinking of was a comic book story.
    Power with Girl is better.

  3. #63
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Was there a modern SM comic run that was mostly unconnected from the shared universe? I can't think of one. I feel the larger DCU has become Superman's extended family.
    Superman Adventures was really the best of both worlds.
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  4. #64
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    pros: Superman is no longer the company punching bag.

    Cons: He'll become the punching bag in his own world.

  5. #65
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    pros: Superman is no longer the company punching bag.

    Cons: He'll become the punching bag in his own world.
    Show me where Saitama or All Might are the punching bag in their world. They are stories where being the most powerful and not losing is the point.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Show me where Saitama or All Might are the punching bag in their world. They are stories where being the most powerful and not losing is the point.
    In All Might's case, he's somewhere between Dumbledore and Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond. He's not the main character of the story and thus isn't supposed to solve the characters' problems too much. Saitama is just a gag character.

    The reason why they rarely lose or get treated as punching bags is because they're rarely frontliners in the plot in the first place.

  7. #67
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    In All Might's case, he's somewhere between Dumbledore and Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond. He's not the main character of the story and thus isn't supposed to solve the characters' problems too much. Saitama is just a gag character.

    The reason why they rarely lose or get treated as punching bags is because they're rarely frontliners in the plot in the first place.
    Satiama isn't a gag character, He is character who is at the final level from the beginning story. It is what if Naruto, Ichigaho, Goku, Gon,etc began the show/anime with all the power ups the have at the end or basically what if he was Superman. All Might is in a mentorship role now but he began as the Superman representation in the universe and even as his power slowly went away he was never used a punch bag or had him losing to show how scary a villain was in the story. It is not like this only two I mean Homelander hasn't taken L, Omniman hasn't taken L,etc.

    Not having to share universe means the big characters don't have to take L for the sake of other character shinning. Separated from shared universe Superman does not have get beat so Flash, Batman, Wonder Woman get their time shine in the story. So Superman does not have become punching bag in his own world. Of course Superman has to lose but it never has to be someone under the level of person who should beat him and without bring up spoilers that is in Omniman future. I disagree with the punching bag thing
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 06-06-2021 at 09:55 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Show me where Saitama or All Might are the punching bag in their world. They are stories where being the most powerful and not losing is the point.
    Yeah, but we're talking about Superman. He's been around for 80+ years. It's much harder to keep people invested when they know Superman and what he can do. With newer series like OPM and MHA, the authors can pull characters out and it's not much of a problem. One of the main reasons why they created Mongul is because they needed a character that could beat Superman relentlessly. That's what's going to happen. Superman will get a bunch of Monguls and Doomsdays. He's going to be the punching bag.

  9. #69
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    He wouldn't have to fight against Batman. Also, his supporting characters like Steel and Supergirl would get way more shine as they'd have less competition in filling certain roles.

    Probably less jobbing for Superman. He's also probably a little smarter too


    Cons- he wouldn't team up with other heroes. No more Justice League stories
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Yeah, but we're talking about Superman. He's been around for 80+ years. It's much harder to keep people invested when they know Superman and what he can do. With newer series like OPM and MHA, the authors can pull characters out and it's not much of a problem. One of the main reasons why they created Mongul is because they needed a character that could beat Superman relentlessly. That's what's going to happen. Superman will get a bunch of Monguls and Doomsdays. He's going to be the punching bag.
    That is not being a punching bag, If you never have threat that can legit hurt you like Mongul or Doomsday then you will not have a good book. Having people around that can legit hurt does not make you a punch bag. When you are in universe by yourself enemies are design to logically defeat and challenge you. That is perfectly fine,Superman turns into a punch bag at DC because

    A. To show that threat is scary Superman is the measuring stick and he has to beaten or else the threat isn't a threat, so often Superman will take an early L so show that the threat is threat but later smack the threat around
    B. He is in world with other characters villains so occasional they have do thing to Superman that should never happen

    The biggest offender of B is the Batman family of characters and easy example is Hero in Crisis where Harley Quinn gets away from Mr "I am as fast as flash, I have super eye sight and hearing" not mention this happen before that




    Parasite, Mongul, Doomsday, Brainaic, Zod, Metallo even Silver Banshee or Toyman beating or being competitive against Superman is fine because if they are not physical challenge for Superman they all will be built with very specific game plan to beat Superman. That is not being a punch bag being a punch bag is in Justice League Superman fighting hench men level creatures and not mopping the the floor with them. Being a punchbag is being as fast Superman is and some how we are suppose to believe that Harley Quinn got the drop on Wonder Woman and him or can do something to Batman like Superman can't hit her before she can even register him moving. I think we have different ideas of what a punch bag is in the fiction. I hope this is clears it up.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 06-08-2021 at 10:17 PM.

  11. #71
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I have no problem with harley or batman beating superman.It's the pretense of vulnerability,humanity,realism,"having lower powerlevel" or whatever is the problem..Batman is top of the food chain..He should be treated like that...Not as some underdog..eesh!!!!
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  12. #72
    Fantastic Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    He wouldn't have to fight against Batman. Also, his supporting characters like Steel and Supergirl would get way more shine as they'd have less competition in filling certain roles.

    Probably less jobbing for Superman. He's also probably a little smarter too


    Cons- he wouldn't team up with other heroes. No more Justice League stories
    Yeah for sure! Would love to see them take a page out of the Bat books and have one title for Superman and the main players, and a second book showcasing the underutilized characters such as Steel, the Supergirls, etc. Would be a great opportunity to give them more face time and have their own adventures. I mean that's what they try to do but it's not always that successful. It would also allow Metropolis to be fleshed out a lot more and develop its own unique identity, rather than being a generic backdrop.

    It would also be nice to not have to worry about how the Superman stories fit in the larger universe. Wouldn't have to worry about how it affects the bigger picture.
    Last edited by The Frog Bros; 06-09-2021 at 05:42 AM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Frog Bros View Post
    Yeah for sure! Would love to see them take a page out of the Bat books and have one title for Superman and the main players, and a second book showcasing the underutilized characters such as Steel, the Supergirls, etc. Would be a great opportunity to give them more face time and have their own adventures. I mean that's what they try to do but it's not always that successful. It would also allow Metropolis to be fleshed out a lot more and develop its own unique identity, rather than being a generic backdrop.

    It would also be nice to not have to worry about how the Superman stories fit in the larger universe. Wouldn't have to worry about how it affects the bigger picture.
    It feels weird how Westerners seem to think that just because someone is the main character that the narrative has to focus on them 100% of the time for every story arc.

    We can have one book where every Superman character cycles focus.

  14. #74
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That is not being a punching bag, If you never have threat that can legit hurt you like Mongul or Doomsday then you will not have a good book. Having people around that can legit hurt does not make you a punch bag. When you are in universe by yourself enemies are design to logically defeat and challenge you. That is perfectly fine,Superman turns into a punch bag at DC because

    A. To show that threat is scary Superman is the measuring stick and he has to beaten or else the threat isn't a threat, so often Superman will take an early L so show that the threat is threat but later smack the threat around
    B. He is in world with other characters villains so occasional they have do thing to Superman that should never happen

    The biggest offender of B is the Batman family of characters and easy example is Hero in Crisis where Harley Quinn gets away from Mr "I am as fast as flash, I have super eye sight and hearing" not mention this happen before that




    Parasite, Mongul, Doomsday, Brainaic, Zod, Metallo even Silver Banshee or Toyman beating or being competitive against Superman is fine because if they are not physical challenge for Superman they all will be built with very specific game plan to beat Superman. That is not being a punch bag being a punch bag is in Justice League Superman fighting hench men level creatures and not mopping the the floor with them. Being a punchbag is being as fast Superman is and some how we are suppose to believe that Harley Quinn got the drop on Wonder Woman and him or can do something to Batman like Superman can't hit her before she can even register him moving. I think we have different ideas of what a punch bag is in the fiction. I hope this is clears it up.
    Yeah, you can hit me in the head with a hammer and I'm still going to recognize that as piss-poor writing. But what are you expecting from Heroes in Crisis?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I agree completely. Shonen anime squads are a bad comparison. Rather than the Justice League, the ensemble casts of various shonen anime are closer to, say, the Fantastic Four, or the Ninja Turtles, in that the different characters are almost literally inextricable from each other and from the team. Without the Ninja Turtles, there is no Michelangelo, and without Naruto's larger cast, there is no Rock Lee, just for example.

    That is not the case for the Justice League. Most of the characters in the League existed without the League in their initial form anyway, and some of them were even published by different companies, like Blue Beetle, so they never could have been part of that world without corporate purchases and DC's aggressive syncretism in the '80s.
    Rock Lee is not important or popular to substain interest in this series though. Nde.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No they aren't.As if dragon ball was created with z warriors.strawhats are still being recruited.even ace and others got novels and spin offs.Rock Lee had one with Naruto franchise and so did Kakashi,guy..etc.It's the same as Supergirl.You just need to be popular or a story to tell.Heck! Kurapika,sasuke.
    Etc had a parallel trajectory or arcs to protagonists that's unconnected as well.

    anyways that's besides the point.The point is you can have a fully fleshed out world without having It be shared universe.
    Naruto never needed Sasuke to be a popular series or a main attraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    yeah! non-shared universe character can have beings that are more powerful than the protagonists.The status of power hierarchy can change or remain the same.Depending on the story and plot.So just because superman exists in a non-shared verse.Doesn't mean there can't character "x" more stronger,faster...yadayada than him.Also,they don't have to be antagonists either.For instance, a character "kinglizard from planet vombat" who is more powerful or equal.An example would be Vartox.
    Who doesnt exist.

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