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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I get it but they are writers. They would have found other characters to use or stories to tell.
    Heck, as writers, they can just make new characters for Superman to interact with.

    I wouldn't since Superman has a lot of Superman-specific characters that can easily be used instead.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    To be honest, it would probably be a lot like a TV show. Without a larger universe to work with, they would be forced to focus on the rest of the Super-cast. Like the Daily Planet staff and the personal lives of the secondary characters. Superman & Lois is actually a good template despite being part of a shared universe.
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  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Heck, as writers, they can just make new characters for Superman to interact with.

    I wouldn't since Superman has a lot of Superman-specific characters that can easily be used instead.
    Kara, John, Karen, Conner, Jon, Gangbuster, Natasha, Alpha Centurion, the DNAliens of Cadmus, Maxima, Vartox, the Legion, the Squadron Super and Superman 1 Million, the Special Crimes Unit and Science Police, the Newsboy Legion, Guardian....

    Plus hundreds of others I never heard of or don't fully remember, like that cosmic Silver Surfer type dude from the triangle era....some kind of android that became a demigod and went to explore space or something.....he might've been gold?

    Not to mention the infinite number of characters a writer could and would create and introduce.

    Arguably the New Gods, though I myself prefer them to be their own separate thing.
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    It think it's possible to make a universe where Superman is the only super-hero period.

    I also think it's possible to make a universe where other super-heroes exist, but only ones initially created or adopted as supporting characters for Big Blue, like Steel, Guardian, the Legion of Super-Heroes...

    And I think both are viable concepts for the character. You maybe even could stretch to include the New Gods, since if there's one "mainstream DC" character that the "Kirby-Verse" undeniably includes, it's Jimmy Olsen "and his Pal, Superman".

    Do I actually think that the rest of the DCU has a negative enough impact on Superman to be worth doing this? Eh, probably not? But it'd certainly be kind of a cool experiment if DC were to do something like this in a "Superman only" line of books for a year or two. Maybe something like that story Gene Yang is doing right now in "Batman/Superman" where they each have unique universes and Batman doesn't exist in the "Super-Verse"? Granted, that's a much smaller-scale and more temporary thing than the thought I'm currently entertaining, which would be at minimum, one entire book that never crosses over with any other of the "big seven" or major Justice League or Society players.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Characters could just spin-off and be the their own hero.Why settle for batman or ww when you can have entire zwarriors or strawhat pirates or whatever?
    Because the Z-Warriors and Straw Hats were made up as part of an ensemble and would be much harder to build solo adventures around.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Because the Z-Warriors and Straw Hats were made up as part of an ensemble and would be much harder to build solo adventures around.
    I agree completely. Shonen anime squads are a bad comparison. Rather than the Justice League, the ensemble casts of various shonen anime are closer to, say, the Fantastic Four, or the Ninja Turtles, in that the different characters are almost literally inextricable from each other and from the team. Without the Ninja Turtles, there is no Michelangelo, and without Naruto's larger cast, there is no Rock Lee, just for example.

    That is not the case for the Justice League. Most of the characters in the League existed without the League in their initial form anyway, and some of them were even published by different companies, like Blue Beetle, so they never could have been part of that world without corporate purchases and DC's aggressive syncretism in the '80s.
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  7. #37
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Because the Z-Warriors and Straw Hats were made up as part of an ensemble and would be much harder to build solo adventures around.
    No they aren't.As if dragon ball was created with z warriors.strawhats are still being recruited.even ace and others got novels and spin offs.Rock Lee had one with Naruto franchise and so did Kakashi,guy..etc.It's the same as Supergirl.You just need to be popular or a story to tell.Heck! Kurapika,sasuke.
    Etc had a parallel trajectory or arcs to protagonists that's unconnected as well.

    anyways that's besides the point.The point is you can have a fully fleshed out world without having It be shared universe.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-12-2021 at 01:06 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Consequence of keeping Superman forever trapped in Smallville and the creators having disgust to the main character actually becoming Superman, wearing the uniform and even flying.
    He did both at the end of the series and by the sixth season spent less and less time in Smallville. I think you might be projecting a bit here.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No they aren't.As if dragon ball was created with z warriors.strawhats are still being recruited.even ace and others got novels and spin offs.Rock Lee had one with Naruto franchise and so did Kakashi,guy..etc.It's the same as Supergirl.You just need to be popular or a story to tell.Heck! Kurapika,sasuke.
    Etc had a parallel trajectory or arcs to protagonists that's unconnected as well.

    anyways that's besides the point.The point is you can have a fully fleshed out world without having It be shared universe.
    The Z-Warriors and Straw Hats were created as supporting characters to the main leads (or in the case of the Z-Warriors, most of them started out as villains before becoming allies). You are talking about ongoing solo adventures with characters that were supporting characters previously which is a lot easier said than done. Lee's spinoff was an out-of-continuity comedy anime and the novels were one-shots.

    What do new Straw Hats being recruited prove? That the writer wants to add to Luffy's supporting cast?

  10. #40
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    A Superman standalone universe works perfectly well,
    you actually have a universe in the Silver Age Superman line, with everyone in the Super Watch, all the planets in Legion of Superheroes,
    you can make a range of projects just on the Superman-verse, ranging from Krypton related to Legion related, to Earth related,
    so much potential.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He did both at the end of the series and by the sixth season spent less and less time in Smallville. I think you might be projecting a bit here.
    I may have exagerated. But my point is, at some point in comics, people started to ground Superman, make him just a dude who happens to have superpowers and that, imo, make it easy for characters like Lex outshine him. Smallville is just a bgger example, the creators had, as a rule, that Clark would not fly or use uniform because they didn't wanted to, and at some point they became more interested in writing Lex Luthor journey into villany that Clark's journey to become Superman.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I may have exagerated. But my point is, at some point in comics, people started to ground Superman, make him just a dude who happens to have superpowers and that, imo, make it easy for characters like Lex outshine him. Smallville is just a bgger example, the creators had, as a rule, that Clark would not fly or use uniform because they didn't wanted to, and at some point they became more interested in writing Lex Luthor journey into villany that Clark's journey to become Superman.
    Lex was popular but whether he outshone Clark is up for debate. I feel this gets said of just about any character who isn't forgettable these days. Its like if anyone is talking about a character that isn't the main protagonist the writers are writing him wrong. Clark got closer and closer to being Superman from the very first episode while Lex's journey to villainy didn't really start until season 5.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Most of the major points were probably already covered, and this thread probably is mostly about the comics, but it's worth noting that the shared universe concept completely destroyed the DCEU incarnation of Superman, which already had its own fair share of problems meeting the public's expectations.

    I actually generally enjoy the shared universe, but there's a huge caveat. While I think there are more good things than bad things for Superman as far as the shared universe goes, the bad stuff is really, really atrocious, that it almost completely undoes the goodwill created by the good stories. It's almost as though when a really bad shared universe story comes along that treats Superman like garbage, I need to read five good ones to wash that bad taste out of my mouth.

  14. #44

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    I was a fan of Vigilantes, a spinoff for My Hero Academia. I agree with manwhohaseverything. I think most shonens could handle a spinoff. They just don't have the interest to do so. Besides some supporting characters can become leads themselves. That's how most spin-offs on TV get started. Examples are Angel and Better Call Saul.

    Or look at Marvel as most of the mainstays started out as supporting characters or villians. Like Hawkeye, Black Widow or Wolverine etc.

    It'll take some doing and some characters are easier than others but that's not a unique problem to anime.

    You could apply that Superman's existing characters.

    I could pitch you a livewire spinoff where she struggles with being an ex-con. Can she go legit or is she going to fall back into old ways?

    Or I could pitch you a spinoff about Sharif, a middle eastern teenager who wants to be a hero like Superman. Will Detroit (or insert different American city) accept or reject him?

    Or how about Sarah Kent, Clark's young daughter who doesn't know she's destined to die at 18 in a time travel adventure (she's Cir-el). Can she fight her destiny or is she gonna meet her death with dignity?

    So yeah it's doable.

  15. #45
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Z-Warriors and Straw Hats were created as supporting characters to the main leads (or in the case of the Z-Warriors, most of them started out as villains before becoming allies). You are talking about ongoing solo adventures with characters that were supporting characters previously which is a lot easier said than done. Lee's spinoff was an out-of-continuity comedy anime and the novels were one-shots.

    What do new Straw Hats being recruited prove? That the writer wants to add to Luffy's supporting cast?
    So what?Naruto is a support character in boruto and rocklee .yet,those things happen more often.i have provided examples with ace,Kakashi,guy,sasuke...etc novels and stuff like that.Those things are part of the mainline .you just saying they are hard.It's as hard as having a Supergirl spin-off or red hood one.The only characters that can't get spin-off in the present is strawhats.That's because they are the story.Even then they can get prequels and stuff like that.Zwarriors,hxh guys,heroes from my hero...etc all can be spun-off.Heck!People want an allmight spin-off.There is things like my hero vigilantes.

    if you are implying that being created as support gives you second banana treatment.That's not how it works eastern comics.Characters all get their development.Also,you think shared universe stories don't priorities Like that.They have batman,ww, superman stories in JL .how do you think things like jobbing,power levels ,..etc came to be.There is a reason for it.A story needs an anchor and focus.That's the protagonist.For some reason humans work like that.But,that doesn't mean other characters can't get fleshed out in the verse.That can focus can and does shift as well.

    All I was saying was that these characters aren't "designed" in the first place.They came to be as the story progressed.Story is what matters.The authors don't make tailormade support characters for being second banana to the protagonist.That's not how it works.These characters aren't sidekicks or something like that.Heck!there are side characters with more fan support than even protagonist.American comics is ip therefore character centric.Eastern comics are story centric.The story is given more importance and is the selling point.The characters aren't treated as selling point.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-12-2021 at 10:28 PM.
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