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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    They are no real Cons, He is big dawg. He smacked the Justice league around in the movies. It is not like anyone ever goes I wonder who is coming to help Superman. Superman is one of the least affect characters by being in a shared universe imo. If they ever treated other heroes like Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, etc like their power levels then maybe there would be a Con.

    The big Pro is that power level is adjusted around him and every villain is design to hurt him. He is always challenged
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 04-12-2021 at 10:22 PM.

  2. #47
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    They are no real Cons, He is big dawg. He smacked the Justice league around in the movies. It is not like anyone ever goes I wonder who is coming to help Superman. Superman is one of the least affect characters by being in a shared universe imo. If they ever treated other heroes like Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, etc like their power levels then maybe there would be a Con.
    yeah! non-shared universe character can have beings that are more powerful than the protagonists.The status of power hierarchy can change or remain the same.Depending on the story and plot.So just because superman exists in a non-shared verse.Doesn't mean there can't character "x" more stronger,faster...yadayada than him.Also,they don't have to be antagonists either.For instance, a character "kinglizard from planet vombat" who is more powerful or equal.An example would be Vartox.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post

    The big Pro is that power level is adjusted around him and every villain is design to hurt him. He is always challenged
    The problem is conveying that to the general audience. A lot seem to think all he fights is Lex Luthor and petty criminals (the films are largely to blame for this) yet he fights tons of people stronger than him all the time.

  4. #49
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    The problem is conveying that to the general audience. A lot seem to think all he fights is Lex Luthor and petty criminals (the films are largely to blame for this) yet he fights tons of people stronger than him all the time.
    I don't think that's a big challenge.i mean, people didn't really think aquaman and ww had much rogues.I think the bigger challenge how are you gonna have a bigger yhreat without him causing devastation which clark can't always stop.For example,zod was significantly more powerful in man of steel movie.Yet,People expected clark to not fail or do some cory building lifting,not focus on enemy infront who he can't even beat .I expect even the death of superman animated movie if done in a live action way would have people screaming.
    With ww and aquaman,they have different magicsl world. People won't see themselves.But with superman, metropolis is portrayed like a normal city with people like us.That means trouble.When they get crushed.And especially with people don't viewing superman as just another action character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-13-2021 at 03:39 AM.
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  5. #50
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    They are no real Cons, He is big dawg. He smacked the Justice league around in the movies. It is not like anyone ever goes I wonder who is coming to help Superman. Superman is one of the least affect characters by being in a shared universe imo. If they ever treated other heroes like Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, etc like their power levels then maybe there would be a Con.

    The big Pro is that power level is adjusted around him and every villain is design to hurt him. He is always challenged
    That was mostly as setup for his eventual brainwashing and establishing how much of a threat he will be for other characters.

    So it's a con.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    The problem is conveying that to the general audience. A lot seem to think all he fights is Lex Luthor and petty criminals (the films are largely to blame for this) yet he fights tons of people stronger than him all the time.
    I'd just give him more diverse threats. Take a page out of JOJO'S Bizarre Adventure or Hunter X Hunter and find threats he can't fight by punching it. Let him flex his mind as well as his muscles.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    They are no real Cons, He is big dawg. He smacked the Justice league around in the movies. It is not like anyone ever goes I wonder who is coming to help Superman. Superman is one of the least affect characters by being in a shared universe imo. If they ever treated other heroes like Captain Atom, Martian Manhunter, etc like their power levels then maybe there would be a Con.

    The big Pro is that power level is adjusted around him and every villain is design to hurt him. He is always challenged
    I think you can make an argument for the bold, or say that on average or net Superman has it good with a shared universe, but I still think he's the one who gets abused the most for the Worf Effect. So it cuts both ways, he gets that grand poobah status, but then that position opens him up to be the measuring stick to show how tough hero X or villain Y is.

    Also, if you wanted a true MoS sequel, the shared universe really dashed your hopes. He might've had the benefit of whooping on the rest of the JL, and I'll admit I got some satisfaction out of it, but I'm still unfulfilled by the creative decisions they had for Superman in the DCEU. I thought MoS was a decent start but the rush to make it a shared cinematic universe derailed Supes.

    And, of course, there are just random stories here and there where it gets really hard to argue against that Superman's presence in the story is absolutely not to his benefit and is just there for a variety of reasons, such as he's a JL member so he has to be there, or it's something like DKR and for various reasons the antagonist "has" to be Superman.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 04-13-2021 at 07:42 AM.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Was there a modern SM comic run that was mostly unconnected from the shared universe? I can't think of one. I feel the larger DCU has become Superman's extended family.

    The cons are when he has to be sidelined or looking bad for other characters to shine.

  9. #54
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Just to note, as others have said, having a Superman universe without other heroes really doesn't mean a Superman universe without other heroes. But the heroes might be Superboy, Steel, Supergirl, Powergirl or similar characters.

    Meanwhile, there might be a Batman universe where Robin becomes Nightwing, there's another Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc. But they derive directly from the Batman mythology and are all secondary to him whether they think that or not.

    But I don't think there is as much psychological need from readers for a Batman universe. I think that's something that comes up with the really powerful characters because they get played down, sometimes to a degree that all suspension of disbelief is gone, to make the street level characters of any relevance in a team or team-up story.

    Superman is especially problematic because there's a significant number of readers who want him to be the most powerful in everything that both he and another character can do. That's not fair to fans of a lot of other characters to have a "glass ceiling" that Superman is above and it's a declaration of war for another character to equal or beat him.

    On the other hand, if they ever really went back to everyone being in his or her own universe, it would just reverse and people would clamor for the richness of a shared universe.

    I think the Superman problem, for me, is not others being equal or close enough that it doesn't matter, but those instances where it gets extreme. Barry Allen beating him in a race not just by a little bit but leaving him in the dust. "We raced before and it was always close". "Clark, those races were for charity". Flash villains like Livewire slapping Superman like nothing. Superman dumbed down so Batman can be smart because it's the only thing that will distinguish Batman when he teams with Superman. Well, that and Superman's powers being ignored but that's going to happen even in a pure Superman universe as soon as the writer can't force the story in the direction he wants if Superman always has his consistent powers.
    Power with Girl is better.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Just to note, as others have said, having a Superman universe without other heroes really doesn't mean a Superman universe without other heroes. But the heroes might be Superboy, Steel, Supergirl, Powergirl or similar characters.

    Meanwhile, there might be a Batman universe where Robin becomes Nightwing, there's another Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc. But they derive directly from the Batman mythology and are all secondary to him whether they think that or not.

    But I don't think there is as much psychological need from readers for a Batman universe. I think that's something that comes up with the really powerful characters because they get played down, sometimes to a degree that all suspension of disbelief is gone, to make the street level characters of any relevance in a team or team-up story.

    Superman is especially problematic because there's a significant number of readers who want him to be the most powerful in everything that both he and another character can do. That's not fair to fans of a lot of other characters to have a "glass ceiling" that Superman is above and it's a declaration of war for another character to equal or beat him.

    On the other hand, if they ever really went back to everyone being in his or her own universe, it would just reverse and people would clamor for the richness of a shared universe.

    I think the Superman problem, for me, is not others being equal or close enough that it doesn't matter, but those instances where it gets extreme. Barry Allen beating him in a race not just by a little bit but leaving him in the dust. "We raced before and it was always close". "Clark, those races were for charity". Flash villains like Livewire slapping Superman like nothing. Superman dumbed down so Batman can be smart because it's the only thing that will distinguish Batman when he teams with Superman. Well, that and Superman's powers being ignored but that's going to happen even in a pure Superman universe as soon as the writer can't force the story in the direction he wants if Superman always has his consistent powers.
    Livewire isn't a Flash villain.

  11. #56
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    It's weird that people in this thread are listing the Superman Family as a pro when they're the same people who listed why the Superman Family (not Lois and Jimmy) doesn't work in previous Superman Family threads.

  12. #57
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Pros: No Batman. No Joker. No Injustice.

    Cons: None.
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  13. #58
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    It's weird that people in this thread are listing the Superman Family as a pro when they're the same people who listed why the Superman Family (not Lois and Jimmy) doesn't work in previous Superman Family threads.
    i have always been pro superman family .but ,Characters being so similar is what i don't like.I want more sizes,shapes, designs and powers for them.
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  14. #59
    Amazing Member Gitagon's Avatar
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    I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that livewire is a Superman villain.

  15. #60
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitagon View Post
    I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that livewire is a Superman villain.
    Yeah, I think I got that idea from a story where the Flash had to save Superman from Livewire.
    Power with Girl is better.

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