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  1. #31
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    What good is an "END BOSS" if nothing is allowed to end?

  2. #32
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    What good is an "END BOSS" if nothing is allowed to end?
    Epic. Fight. Scenes.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    which new gods have avatars?
    Imo it should only be highfather and darkseid
    everyone else are just denizens of the 4th world they are not aspects like darkseid or highfather
    maybe orion too but that's complicated
    As I recall it was whenever they were not on the fourth world

    Though it was about darkseid specifically, though I can't remember where I heard this

    It was linked to other comments made by some of the characters, like Orion holding a planet in his hand be wise on the fourth world they are giants and boom tubes translate their form to a more human size when they avatar

    As I say I can't recall exactly, but I do remember that that was the gist of it

  4. #34
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    I think the idea of ​​darkseid's avatars seems stupid not because of the difference in power, but because of the personality. from one medium to another or from one series to another darkseid's personality changes. That is why I think that if instead of avatars (same being, therefore same personality) they were beings corrupted by darkseid it would be better.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    I think the idea of ​​darkseid's avatars seems stupid not because of the difference in power, but because of the personality. from one medium to another or from one series to another darkseid's personality changes. That is why I think that if instead of avatars (same being, therefore same personality) they were beings corrupted by darkseid it would be better.
    The way Morrison set it up, they didn't have to have the same personality. They were retractions, not perfect shadows. So there was some leeway to let different Darkseids be different takes on the character.

  6. #36
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I'm just not getting it.

    Okay. There's only one Darkseid, right? Is that all the New Gods, or just Darkseid? If it's not all of them, why does he keep hanging around with alternate reality versions of the same people? I can almost wrap my head around the idea of Darkseid being some multi-reality being, but Is there only one Virman Vundabar? One Glorious Godfrey? I have a hard time accepting these guys as outside the multiverse.

    And then, what about Apokolips? Is there only one Apokolips? If not, why does alternate shades of Darkseid always hang out there? If there is, why can you get into a spaceship and fly there?

    Also this means Zack Snyder Darskeid, Grant Morrison Darkseid, Darkseid voices by Weird Al and Lunch Lady Darkseid from the Tiny Titans are all the same guy and that's just hilarious.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Epic. Fight. Scenes.
    And what about the next time? How are they supposed to sell the danger next time?

  8. #38
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    Having ONE Darkseid is the same premise to me as having THREE Jokers - it's a kernel of an idea that requires the author (or authors) to develop and nurture it.

    But from what we have seen from comics and the lack of follow through historically, it falls closer to the 'dumb' side compared to the 'amazing' side of things.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Is that all the New Gods?
    Correct. Morrison's interpretation and retcon was that any beings from the Fourth World were higher-dimensional beings that had previously only interracted with Earth-One dimension as refractions and by possessing people. Their idea is a god cannot physically enter the physical plane without damaging it. This refraction are just part of the god, the same as a color in light refrracted through a prism is only one aspect of white light. So Darkseid, Virman Vunderbar, Kalibak, Lightray and all the others are refractions.

    So too is Apokalips and New Genesis. To answer another part, you *can't* just get to the Fourth World through space travel. It's not clear in Kirby's original, but by the Evanier/Byrne era in the mid-90s, it was made clear it was extra-dimensional and could only be accessed through Boom Tubes.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    The way Morrison set it up, they didn't have to have the same personality. They were retractions, not perfect shadows. So there was some leeway to let different Darkseids be different takes on the character.
    I think that we must simplify the idea of ​​darkseid, that all the darkseid we see are the same, it is very difficult for the writer.
    that's why what I would do.
    1: you have the higher self that exists above the universe
    2: you have the avatar, the only one, exists in the main dc universe.
    3: all other darkseid (other universe) are beings corrupted by the real darkseid, they work for him, but they are not darkseid.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    I see it as Darkseid Prime is a "New" God and Darkseids from different universes are just powerful aliens

  12. #42
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    And what about the next time? How are they supposed to sell the danger next time?
    Hopefully by focusing on other villains for a while, and slowly building back up to Darkseid years later. And then?
    Epic. Fight. Scenes.

    Rinse and repeat with many rotating and new stories and villains.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    Correct. Morrison's interpretation and retcon was that any beings from the Fourth World were higher-dimensional beings that had previously only interracted with Earth-One dimension as refractions and by possessing people. Their idea is a god cannot physically enter the physical plane without damaging it. This refraction are just part of the god, the same as a color in light refrracted through a prism is only one aspect of white light. So Darkseid, Virman Vunderbar, Kalibak, Lightray and all the others are refractions.

    So too is Apokalips and New Genesis. To answer another part, you *can't* just get to the Fourth World through space travel. It's not clear in Kirby's original, but by the Evanier/Byrne era in the mid-90s, it was made clear it was extra-dimensional and could only be accessed through Boom Tubes.
    Totally right I think

    Sure there are a few exceptions, such as the phantom stranger being able to get there on their own power, or similar levels of power brings

    But that was the point, you had to transact on new god level otherwise it was boom tube tech

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well first off, I'm gonna call foul on judging an idea by how well DC has capitalized on it. Because that's a big part of what DC is; good ideas that usually see questionable, uneven, or no execution.

    If the New Gods being multiversal is a bad idea because DC has used the idea badly, then pretty much every other book you've ever bought from them is a bad idea too. Superman is the worst idea in human history, if DC's ability to use the character well is what we must judge his value by.

    So, I have a question for those here who belong to a religion. There's mounting scientific evidence that parallel universes and dimensions *might* exist (I'm not saying they do, but several experiments point to it being possible). So let's say that those theories prove (more or less) true. Does that mean your god only exists in this universe, and not the others? Is that an "alternate" god over there on earth-2? Or do you believe your god/s created all of existence? And if so, and parallel universes are actually a thing, doesn't that make your god/s multiversal being/s?

    So other than DC's questionable execution of the idea, why is Darkseid any different?

    It's not what Kirby originally created, but I don't really think it contradicts anything in a major way either (not that I've read/remembered anyway). And originally, Superman didn't fly or have heat vision or get his power from the sun, or any of that. He didn't have a cousin who survived Krypton, or a dog, or a son. The mythos evolved over time, generally growing bigger and more complex, and the same has happened to most other franchises and characters. The New Gods being multiversal beings is no different, really.

    It doesn't fit the publication history any better than the changes other characters have gone through, but DC continuity is a mess and has been since before the first Crisis. And I think it's something that can be used or ignored, and it works either way. You can act like Darkseid isn't a multiversal being, or you can act like he is, but it only matters when and if the writer decides to comment on it. Other than that specific story point, the whole thing is a non-issue.

    For me....when it comes to the New Gods, Kirby's word is king, followed by Simonson, and then Morrison. Morrison said the New Gods are multiversal and Kirby's not with us, so unless Simonson says otherwise, Morrison's the highest authority on the subject.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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