Darkseid not having alternate counter parts is dumb

[Castiel]

So there is supposedly only one Darkseid but that is dumb when you think about it. For example Darkfather from the Dark Multiverse proves this to be false. Darkfather is a Batman who defeated his Darkseid and took his power. This alone proves other Darkseids can exist. As another Darkseid had to exist and Batman taking his power became another Darkseid. I just don't get the absurd need to say there is one when there are clearly more only thing I can figure is the alternates are unaware of each other's existence. There was even a Darkseid Superman(he had no lines) who fought in Barbatos's army

[Nite-Wing]

there is only one darkseid
darkseid has aspects throughout the multiverse which lead to things like darkfather but they are far from the sum of the true darkseid

[Vakanai]

there is only one darkseid
darkseid has aspects throughout the multiverse which lead to things like darkfather but they are far from the sum of the true darkseid

That...just feels like a copout.

[Castiel]

That...just feels like a copout.

Plus it makes no sense.

[Adekis]

I completely agree.

It's not just dumb, it's deliberately ignorant of that fact that Darkseid already has alternate versions.

There is no way to argue that Kirby's Darkseid from 1971 is the same person as Morrison's Darkseid from 2008. And that goes for most versions of Darkseid, to be honest.

To say that all Darkseid iterations across all media merely "reflect" some "real" Darkseid is only to say that there is, in fact, no Darkseid at all, because he has never been put to page, and furthermore, never can be.

And let's be completely f*cking real here, let's drop the in-universe pretensions: this idea for the New Gods is a retcon that was made up around what, like 2006? Jack Kirby and John Byrne and Walt Simonson are fairlydefinitive New Gods writers and none of them ever wrote with this idea in mind. And certainly Kirby ought to take some pretty huge precedence over everyone else here!

If the idea at least kind of worked for most stories, that might be one thing. Jerry Siegel didn't initially think Superman got power from the sun, but that concept is fairly unobtrusive and it doesn't seem to contradict stories before that idea was introduced! By contrast, the "Every New God Is the Same Across All Media" concept is such a bizarre, meta conceit, that it obviously and clearly only works (on the shakiest ground mind you) for stories that are already written with this idea in mind. Is the New 52 Darkseid who laid waste to Robinson's Earth 2 the same one who the League fought on Earth 0? Sure, close enough. But is the Kalibak one from Justice League Unlimited the same one as in The Super-Powers Team: Galactic Guardians? Only in the same way that their Batmen are both the same character! But there are clear and obvious variations on a creative level. No level of "reflecting" an imaginary, ineffable, impossibly inconceivable "true" version of a New God, can ultimately cover up the fact that the level of variation we see for different versions of these characters, is the same kind of variation you see for every single other DC character.

It's idiotic.

I mean I'm not saying everyone who likes the idea is personally dumb, but the idea is a bad one, and we should recognize its obvious limitations, I say!

[HandofPrometheus]

Aren't all the New Gods, Greek Gods, and Guardians supposed to have only one true self? Their worlds were officially confirmed to exist outside the multiverse. I don't know how this works but DC was adamant in not making them exist within multiple Earths.

[Celgress]

That...just feels like a copout.

It sure does.

I call nonsensical BS.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

All these responses just re-iterating the very concept itself, as if it's undeniable fact which has always been true about New Gods, or other gods, are honestly just kind of irritating?...

Again, I really don't want to give the impression that I think anyone specifically is dumb just for liking this idea. I don't even necessarily think the "one Darkseid / other individual New Gods for multiple worlds" idea has literally no use. I mean it worked okay during the early New 52. But it can only be limited use. You can't pretend that there's some actual way in which Kirby's Darkseid is the same character as Morrison's, no matter how much you abstract it with "idealist refraction" or whatever it's called.

That...just feels like a copout.

It sure does.

I call nonsensical BS.

Pretty much what Mightnight_v said. But, I'd like to push back on what you said about Morrison's Darkseid being not what Kirby intended or that Kirby's Darkseid is just a "cartoon character designed to be fascist." Kirby was actually deeper than what you give him credit for. Kirby literally designed these characters to be gods. That wasn't just a neat name. It was actually what he meant to portray them as.

He intended them to be like the gods of ancient myth, i.e. manifestations of larger, more obtuse concepts. Just like how Ares was the god of war and drew his power from conflict, Darkseid was intended to be the god of evil and drew his power from the darkness inherent in peoples' souls. And when you look at actual myths, avatars of a larger, more obtuse diety is something that pops up a LOT. Think of Vishnu in Hinduism or Horus and Osiris in Egyptian mythology. Even the Holy Trinity in Christianity is an example of one diety that is also three cosubstantial persons.

So...one diety having multiple iterations/avatars while the True Darkseid is an intangible being residing in another plane is not something that Morrison just pulled out of thin air and is a logical extension of what Kirby originally intended.