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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Superman's weakness to magic always confused me because I assume everyones weak to it unless stated otherwise.
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  2. #47
    Kon-El "The Scion" SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Why would magic obey the laws of physics?

    I would think you would have to use a sufficient amount of magic energy to actually do something to superman, it can't be just a D list magic user with very limited ability imo
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    I would think you would have to use a sufficient amount of magic energy to actually do something to superman, it can't be just a D list magic user with very limited ability imo
    Why is your argument for Superman in the other thread history or what is established, if you want in this thread rewrite history or what is established all the time? That is not how magic typically interacts with meta humans or the likes in DC, magic don't works like energy beams, and there are also no Dragonball Zish power levels for magic in DC.
    Last edited by Rightoya; 04-18-2021 at 10:23 PM.

  4. #49
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Someone should let the AT&T and WB execs know before Dwayne Johnson gets that Black Adam Beats Superman: The Movie he's been pushing for.
    If black adam is kickass, I would be rooting for it.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  5. #50
    Kon-El "The Scion" SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Why is your argument for Superman in the other thread history or what is established, if you want in this thread rewrite history or what is established all the time? That is not how magic typically interacts with meta humans or the likes in DC, magic don't works like energy beams, and there are also no Dragonball Zish power levels for magic in DC.

    I would still think you would need a sufficient amount of magic power and skill to actually effect someone like superman.
    Where is my damn Tactile Telekinesis?
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  6. #51
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    That doesn't make any sense, even ignoring how stupid it would already be in itself to have Wonder Woman not even in the same league like Superman let alone other Kryptonians, Wonder Woman should definitively never be weaker than Hercules and even on par would be questionable enough already. Any writer who even thinks about making her weaker than Hercules should never be allowed to write her, that would be an absolute red flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    Do you have any reason for why Wonder Woman should be stronger than Hercules?
    The real truth of the matter is that Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel were not meant to occupy the same continuity together. They were not only created by different people, but by different companies, so the strength comparison should factor in that we are dealing with two different iterations of Hercules. Even when Marvel was obtained by DC, he existed on Earth-S, not on Earth-1.

    Captain Marvel got his strength from one Hercules, while Wonder Woman is determined to be stronger than another (who in her universe, is a villain). Some people take the Hercules stuff too literally. Billy got his power from Hercules and he is meant to be either as strong or a bit stronger than Diana, who in turn is meant to be stronger than her version of Hercules. It doesn't mesh together, Billy's take on Greek myth is never going to fit comfortably alongside Diana's take on it. The Hercules who empowers Billy is evidently a different one than the guy who imprisoned the Amazons, and the attempts to make them the same guy have never really worked because CM does not fit well in the main DCU and how they want to structure it.

    It's the same reason Mary Marvel getting her strength from Hippolyta can't work in the main canon. When was the last time Wonder Woman's mother pulled off Supergirl level feats, including flight?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    I would still think you would need a sufficient amount of magic power and skill to actually effect someone like superman.
    For a strong effect, yeah sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The real truth of the matter is that Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel were not meant to occupy the same continuity together. They were not only created by different people, but by different companies, so the strength comparison should factor in that we are dealing with two different iterations of Hercules. Even when Marvel was obtained by DC, he existed on Earth-S, not on Earth-1.

    Captain Marvel got his strength from one Hercules, while Wonder Woman is determined to be stronger than another (who in her universe, is a villain). Some people take the Hercules stuff too literally. Billy got his power from Hercules and he is meant to be either as strong or a bit stronger than Diana, who in turn is meant to be stronger than her version of Hercules. It doesn't mesh together, Billy's take on Greek myth is never going to fit comfortably alongside Diana's take on it. The Hercules who empowers Billy is evidently a different one than the guy who imprisoned the Amazons, and the attempts to make them the same guy have never really worked because CM does not fit well in the main DCU and how they want to structure it.

    It's the same reason Mary Marvel getting her strength from Hippolyta can't work in the main canon. When was the last time Wonder Woman's mother pulled off Supergirl level feats, including flight?
    I agree with most of that, but it's news to me that Shazam is meant to be anything in comparison with Wonder Woman, except vague things like that both are 2 of the strongest superheroes on earth.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    I agree with most of that, but it's news to me that Shazam is meant to be anything in comparison with Wonder Woman, except vague things like that both are 2 of the strongest superheroes on earth.
    I think you'd have to ignore large swathes of publication materials between Fawcett and pre-COIE DC in particular to come to conclusion that Captain Marvel (Sorry, I will never call him Shazam) "isn't meant to be anything in comparison to WW." They are at best equally strong, if he isn't actually stronger and even with Superman. The friendly rivalry and ambiguity was around in pre-COIE DC when they crossed over as a reference to the real life law suit.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think you'd have to ignore large swathes of publication materials between Fawcett and pre-COIE DC in particular to come to conclusion that Captain Marvel (Sorry, I will never call him Shazam) "isn't meant to be anything in comparison to WW." They are at best equally strong, if he isn't actually stronger and even with Superman. The friendly rivalry and ambiguity was around in pre-COIE DC when they crossed over as a reference to the real life law suit.
    When has any writer of him ever talked about Wonder Womann, or when was there ever any meaningful direct comparison, or anything saying he is meant to be on par let alone stronger?

    I am pretty sure he always had just the same comparison like Wonder Woman, and like she was created as the Superman archetype in female, he was created as the kid who magically turned into the Superman archetype.

  10. #55
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If black adam is kickass, I would be rooting for it.
    Why? Why does a kick ass Black Adam make a movie just for him to kick Superman's ass a good thing?

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    When has any writer of him ever talked about Wonder Womann, or when was there ever any meaningful direct comparison, or anything saying he is meant to be on par let alone stronger?

    I am pretty sure he always had just the same comparison like Wonder Woman, and like she was created as the Superman archetype in female, he was created as the kid who magically turned into the Superman archetype.
    You just answered your own question. If he's the same archetype and they have actual history of presenting him as being the vague closest to Superman, that means he's on par with WW or stronger.

    He was the equivalent of the Superman archetype for Earth-S in Final Crisis.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member ERON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    Superman's weakness to magic always confused me because I assume everyones weak to it unless stated otherwise.
    Yeah, that's the way I always interpreted it. It's not that magic affects Superman in any unique fashion, but rather that it affects him the same as it would anyone else.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You just answered your own question. If he's the same archetype and they have actual history of presenting him as being the vague closest to Superman, that means he's on par with WW or stronger.
    How the heck makes the same archetype like her him stronger than Wonder Woman? And that is still not a direct comparison between each other.

    He was the equivalent of the Superman archetype for Earth-S in Final Crisis.
    Why is that important?

  14. #59
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Why? Why does a kick ass Black Adam make a movie just for him to kick Superman's ass a good thing?
    All i was saying is that if black adam is kickass i would automatically be on his side.With superman,i don't think i have that hope.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  15. #60
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Why? Why does a kick ass Black Adam make a movie just for him to kick Superman's ass a good thing?
    All i was saying is that if black adam is kickass i would automatically be on his side.With superman,i don't think i have that hope or expectations at the very least.It's like this even if superman beats blackadam as with what i call the wet-towel boyscout personality.It wouldn't matter to me.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

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