Superman stronger than Black Adam in Rebirth (JLA #59)

[OopsIdiditagain]

If superman is vulnerable to magic for not being a magical being, ww, shazam etc, they should be vulnerable to cosmic energy because they are not cosmic beings. Superman's weakness to magic is not because he is not a magical being, if that were the case, flash, green lantern and many others would suffer the same treatment when talking about magic, superman is weak because he is superman.

They do get the same treatment. There's a reason why people barely suggest adding the Flash or Green Lantern to Justice League dark or putting them against magic users in hypothetical fights.

I see more people saying Superman should beat magic users like Dr Fate because he's Superman than the opposite.

[Ra-El]

If Superman can't use magic, there's no reason he should be able to defend against it. I see magic as a skill set and Superman doesn't have it.

The way I see it, Black Adam or Shazam's punches for example, won't hurt Superman more than Zod or Mongul's would, because while they are powered by magic their punch aren't magical. The same go for Wonder Woman or any other character with super strenght fueled by mystical source.
Superman is vulnerable to magic spells, Circe turning him into a pig, Dr. Fate magically teleporting him to the moon, etc.

[Rightoya]

Well Imo superman is above Hercules and mercury,not by much, but enough to win a arm wrestling contest or race with them.

The Marvel's are the only folks that are close to superman or kryptonians Imo physically. Wonder woman isnt in his league, she can kick his ass in a straight up fight, but his powers dwarf hers Imo.

That doesn't make any sense, even ignoring how stupid it would already be in itself to have Wonder Woman not even in the same league like Superman let alone other Kryptonians, Wonder Woman should definitively never be weaker than Hercules and even on par would be questionable enough already. Any writer who even thinks about making her weaker than Hercules should never be allowed to write her, that would be an absolute red flag.

[Knightmare]

That doesn't make any sense, even ignoring how stupid it would already be in itself to have Wonder Woman not even in the same league like Superman, Wonder Woman should defintively never be weaker than Hercules. And any writer who even thinks about making her weaker than Hercules should never be allowed to write her, that is an absolute red flag.

Do you have any reason for why Wonder Woman should be stronger than Hercules?

[Rightoya]

Do you have any reason for why Wonder Woman should be stronger than Hercules?

Several reasons, like her own divine empowerments:


That it's part of her catchphrases:




And that it would go even more against for what the character stands for in general, than the Superman let alone other Kryptonians thing already.

As some of the main reasons.

[OopsIdiditagain]

The way I see it, Black Adam or Shazam's punches for example, won't hurt Superman more than Zod or Mongul's would, because while they are powered by magic their punch aren't magical. The same go for Wonder Woman or any other character with super strenght fueled by mystical source.
Superman is vulnerable to magic spells, Circe turning him into a pig, Dr. Fate magically teleporting him to the moon, etc.

I understand the punch logic for Black Adam because but for Shazam his powered-up form is magical.

[NaVi]

They do get the same treatment. There's a reason why people barely suggest adding the Flash or Green Lantern to Justice League dark or putting them against magic users in hypothetical fights.

I see more people saying Superman should beat magic users like Dr Fate because he's Superman than the opposite.

that I remember flash or green lanter have not lost their powers by the simple presence of magic. for DC. flash, green lantern, batman = vulnerable to magic. Kryptonians especially superman = weak.

[SuperX]

Shouldn't the fact that supermans body is the most dense and invulnerable thing make magic harder to use against him or penetrate him?

[OopsIdiditagain]

Shouldn't the fact that supermans body is the most dense and invulnerable thing make magic harder to use against him or penetrate him?

Why would magic obey the laws of physics?

[Knightmare]

Several reasons, like her own divine empowerments:

That it's part of her catchphrases:

And that it would go even more against for what the character stands for in general, than the Superman let alone other Kryptonians thing already.

As some of the main reasons.

I'm hearing a lot of talk, but not seeing much action. For instance.....

[Injustice]Superman and Wonder Woman vs Hercules

[Rightoya]

I'm hearing a lot of talk, but not seeing much action. For instance.....

[Injustice]Superman and Wonder Woman vs Hercules

How about some canon action:



And what you posted is not even the main reason, but Injustice is basically a tutorial about how to don't write Wonder Woman like even if it's an evil or corrupted Wonder Woman, and the reason why probably no Wonder Woman fan ever wants Tom Taylor anywhere near the canon Wonder Woman.

[Gaius]

How about some canon action:



And what you posted is not even the main reason, but Injustice is basically a tutorial about how to don't write Wonder Woman even if it's an evil or corrupted Wonder Woman, and the reason why probably no Wonder Woman fan ever wants Tom Taylor anywhere near the canon Wonder Woman.

Well Brian Buccellato wrote that particular panel from Injustice

But yes, between Injustice and DCeased keeping a creative hack like Tom Taylor away from Wonder Woman would be appreciated.

[Rightoya]

Well Brian Buccellato wrote that particular panel from Injustice

But yes, between Injustice and DCeased keeping a creative hack like Tom Taylor away from Wonder Woman would be appreciated.

Yeah my bad i should have worded that better, but like i have said, what he posted is not even the main reason why the Injustice Wonder Woman is just an insult. And i even forgot that DCeased is from Tom Taylor too.

[Knightmare]

Yeah my bad i should have worded that better, but like i have said, what he posted is not even the main reason why the Injustice Wonder Woman is just an insult. And i even forgot that DCeased is from Tom Taylor too.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'main reason', but I was only trying to show that WW isn't always stronger than Hercules or faster the Mercury. For instance if she was faster than Mercury, why isn't she faster than the Flash?

[Rightoya]

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'main reason', but I was only trying to show that WW isn't always stronger than Hercules or faster the Mercury. For instance if she was faster than Mercury, why isn't she faster than the Flash?

That there are several other reasons why Injustice is trash, and the last thing any Wonder Woman writer should ever look at for inspiration. Which is also why your example basically proves me right about that being an absolute red flag, because that is one of the worst iterations of Wonder Woman in existence. And Mercury or Hermes are not faster than the Flash with full Speed Force-access, which is also why Shazam is in canon far slower than such a Flash, although Mercury or Hermes could theoretically steal his speed.