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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Air Wave's Avatar
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    Default Raven Appreciation Thread 2021

    Welcome to the 2021 Appreciation Thread for RAVEN!

    Screen Shot 2021-04-13 at 8.34.40 AM.jpg

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    So....to avoid derailing the Cyborg thread, I thought I would post my replies to posts in that thread here:

    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Raven never struck me as white either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Raven always stuck me as being very pale-faced, but that might just be because of the cartoon.
    There are poc who pass as white but aren't necessarily 'white' like Northern Indians, Arabs, etc. I'm actually surprised that Raven hasn't been race bent in an adaptation given that it felt like Wolfman/Perez left the door wide open for future creators to go there if they wanted. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for more South Asian representation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Wolfman could've changed the design to be less problematic. I understand wanting to avoid being tone-deaf, but I don't think the lack of representation is the right answer.
    I agree with what you are saying but even in the final product Raven didn't fully come across as 'white' either.

  3. #3
    Spectacular Member orionblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    So....to avoid derailing the Cyborg thread, I thought I would post my replies to posts in that thread here:





    There are poc who pass as white but aren't necessarily 'white' like Northern Indians, Arabs, etc. I'm actually surprised that Raven hasn't been race bent in an adaptation given that it felt like Wolfman/Perez left the door wide open for future creators to go there if they wanted. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for more South Asian representation.



    I agree with what you are saying but even in the final product Raven didn't fully come across as 'white' either.
    This is an interesting point.

    Wolfman/Pérez Raven was garbed several times in saris when she was not in her dress and cloak. I always thought that she would easily have been portrayed in film as Southeast Asian - and it would not have detracted from her character, imho.

    I think that Raven’s transition to the Goth/emo characterization is thanks to the Geoff Johns era along with the Teen Titans cartoon. This unfortunately took the mostly eastern trappings and garb away from her characterization and made her, imo, less ambiguous ethnically and cemented her as being a chalky white goth chick.

    I personally prefer the Wolfman/Pérez version.

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    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There are poc who pass as white but aren't necessarily 'white' like Northern Indians, Arabs, etc. I'm actually surprised that Raven hasn't been race bent in an adaptation given that it felt like Wolfman/Perez left the door wide open for future creators to go there if they wanted. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for more South Asian representation
    Quote Originally Posted by orionblue View Post
    This is an interesting point.

    Wolfman/Pérez Raven was garbed several times in saris when she was not in her dress and cloak. I always thought that she would easily have been portrayed in film as Southeast Asian - and it would not have detracted from her character, imho.

    I think that Raven’s transition to the Goth/emo characterization is thanks to the Geoff Johns era along with the Teen Titans cartoon. This unfortunately took the mostly eastern trappings and garb away from her characterization and made her, imo, less ambiguous ethnically and cemented her as being a chalky white goth chick.

    I personally prefer the Wolfman/Pérez version.
    I could see either Anya Chalotra or Adeline Rudolph as the Wolfman/Perez era version of Raven. Also, I could see Millie Bobby Brown as the Geoff Johns version of Raven.

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    I think she was indigenous in Teen Titans Earth One.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    I much prefer the original version. I feel the goth chick one is too generic and gave way to the worst interpretation of the character (the live action one from the Titans show).
    I'd love to see her played by an Asian actress. That would be a very logical "race-swap" considering her first apperances.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I think she was indigenous in Teen Titans Earth One.
    Honestly I think Earth One take on Raven was one of my favorite takes on the character besides The classic Wolfman/Perez and the TT Cartoon. Her being Native American feels like a natural part of her character

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    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    from Tales of the New Teen Titans #2 (July 1982)

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    Spectacular Member orionblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post

    from Tales of the New Teen Titans #2 (July 1982)

    George Pérez’ rendition of Raven is by perfection.

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member orionblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    I much prefer the original version. I feel the goth chick one is too generic and gave way to the worst interpretation of the character (the live action one from the Titans show).
    I'd love to see her played by an Asian actress. That would be a very logical "race-swap" considering her first apperances.
    I agree that the original Raven is the best iteration of the character. I can definitely see her being portrayed as Southeast Asian and Amita Suman who plays Inej in Netflix’ Shadows and Bones would make a compelling Raven.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Seconding Amita Suman:




  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    I much prefer the original version. I feel the goth chick one is too generic and gave way to the worst interpretation of the character (the live action one from the Titans show).
    I'd love to see her played by an Asian actress. That would be a very logical "race-swap" considering her first apperances.
    I feel like the cartoon isn't responsible for the TV show's terrible interpretation.Even if the TV show used Raven's original version, it would suck because the live action show is awful.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I definitely prefer the original to the goth chick. Not into that version at all.

    As for race, since it was brought up earlier - I feel like she has very "eastern" flavor, and I do associate her culturally a bit with maybe India or that region of the world. Though racially, I definitely think of her as white, as she was depicted, and of that as a culture that was very much adopted by her mother, who was a more general white American, though Raven was born into it. And while I don't mind the change all that much if they decide to go another way, I do think making the belief system of the Azarathians related to her ethnic heritage does rather weaken Arella's story, as person without hope who found a bad group, and then a totally new way that gave her peace (then sacrificed that). I definitely wouldn't want the Azarathians to be based on any particular real culture or belief systems, regardless.

    I really like the very early version of Raven, especially, before emotions became all dangerous for her. She was quite emotive early on. But later Raven with her issues with emotion looms larger in the history, and I like that version, too.

    One thing I really also liked, but don't know if ever gets mentioned anymore since it's part of the past rather than present, is the conflict between Raven's way and the way of the Azarathians that we saw early. Raven called it their "pacifism without compassion" or something like that - not sure of the exact words. And they deal in absolutes. I'm interested in how, despite peace being more important to them than anything, Raven doesn't fit in because she fights, even if what's she's fighting for is good. While I don't like previously basically good cultures (Kryptonians, Amazons, and don't get me started on Atlanteans) rewritten as bad and am often frustrated with how all fictional societies that last very long are established as inferior in values to the best Earth has to offer, I don't want this one rewritten without its flaws, which were an essential part of Raven's origin. But they do seem to be a culture of absolutes. Or at least, this is their most absolute foundational rule, and led to Raven's shunning.

    Thought I hated the Azarathian souls becoming corrupted and how Jericho's death played out. I do think they should have survived and not later been slain by Trigon (and, in hindsight I think Raven-and-her-demoic father/nature should have been one and done so it didn't end up on constant repeat). And, though I know it's traditional in this kind of story and the greatest of sacrifices, I'm really not fond of Arella trapped forever fighting Trigon, either, even though I don't care for his reappearance that freed her. While I know it's not realistic, I do have a fondness for good triumphing over evil instead of endlessly fighting in. Well, maybe that would be boring, with no action for the comics , but at least some breaks between battles.

    Edit: Actually, one thing I find sort of odd and interesting about Arella is her changeability. Perhaps a lack of sense of self or self-purpose, due to her upbringing. I'm not sure how to phrase it. But she gave herself completely to the first cult. Then did the same with the Azarathians. Then, once she's back on earth, she's trying to fit back into that society (with a really annoying bit of bad continuity about visiting her parents, when not having family was a big part of how she ended up where she did). The last one I think was something of a plot device to get her out of the way, but it happened. I think it would be interesting to see that explored. And to see Raven react to her a mother who is so much not what she knew growing up.

    Edit: Actually, in the early stories, I feel like there is an arguement to be made that Arella simply joined another cult. That's probably partially because we only ever see them wearing hoods and handing down pronouncements, as that was plot relevant. Would probably seem much more like a functioning whole society if we saw job interviews, weddings, sporting events, etc. But, of course, those things don't contribute to the plot.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 06-14-2021 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #14
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    Should raven join justice league dark?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Should raven join justice league dark?
    I feel like her soui and love is in the Titan, a guest star would be great

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