Post-Moira X retcon - Questions about Charles Xavier

[Hcmarvel]

A lot has been discussed regarding how to read old Moira appearances in the wake of the Moira X retcon. How does her cover story as a house keeper make sense in her first appearance? When did the Golem replace her in our continuity? Did the Golem know about Moira's powers or did it think it was the real Moira only a human version? Etc. etc. etc.

But I wanted to throw out some questions regarding what make of Charles Xavier's published continuity knowing what we know now.

So Moira tells Xavier at Oxford about her lives and that his naïve dream of co-existence won't work.

But, he only gets a flash I think. Enough to believe what she says but not enough to have encyclopedic knowledge of the future. And as was made clear in HoX 2, while similar things happened in Life 4, Moira doesn't have a blueprint for the timeline. Things change in every life and even the Phoenix 5, which we know happened in Life 4, might have been a totally different context. For all we know Jean never became Phoenix in Life 4, and the Phoenix 5 were the first interaction with the Phoenix. But things were clearly similar enough in Life 4 that some things are familiar to Moira.

(For instance, at the start of the Dark Phoenix Saga when Moira is analyzing Jean's Phoenix powers, we now know she knows more than she's been letting on and must be FREAKING OUT)

So in regard to Xavier:


1. Do we think Moira told Charles to seek out Erik and win him to their side? They wait until ~UXM 150 to try to recruit him to their side, but did Charles know how important Magneto was going to be when he met him in Israel?

2. Did Charles doubt Moira's message? Are we really to believe that the entire time we've been reading X-Men comics Charles was basically lying when he said all he wanted was Mutants and Humans to live together? Or did Genosha/Wanda finally radicalize him to Moira's side? In Moira's Journal entries she implies that Xavier is struggling to get on board with her plan/message but how much of 1963-2019 Xavier was a put on until they could form the Five and enact Moira's plan?

3. When did Charles and Erik approach Mr. Sinister? What era is that? I can't seem to figure out where that would fit in continuity

4. How do we explain Moria's role in the Deadly Genesis mini? Why is she the one resisting forming the X-Men again to save the 05 if she knows how important they are? What do we make of that video tape she left the X-Men where she's afraid Charles will wipe her memory clean?

5. Why did they wait until now to enact the plan? What was the impetus for finally launching Krakoa as the plan now?


Anyone have theories or more questions?

[Havok83]

The golem replaced Moira shortly before her "death". Its my assumption that she planned that in order to fake her death and start laying the seeds for Krakoa in the background

2. Xavier truly wanted his dream of mutants and humans living together. I think him dying and getting a new lease at life changed his perspective. He left Soule's Astonishing X-men with a new dream, which we would eventually learn was what we saw in HOX

3. POX 4 depicts Xavier with his hoverchair which he did not get until the early 90s. Going based off that this must have happened some time between the Muir Island Saga and X-men v2 1-3

4. What Xavier did was dumb and unethical. Getting a bunch of kids that recently got their powers and giving them false training to save the O5 was unwise and resulted in their deaths. It would have made more sense appealing to more veteran mutants (which he would later do) to give them the best shot at success

5. They couldnt have done it until after Hope was born and activated. Soon after she came back to present day Xavier was killed. In the few months they did co-exist, the X-men were fractured and there was less than 200 mutants. The concept of Krakoa could not work with the tension and division that occurred post-Schism and there wasnt enough mutants to make it work. Eva and Goldballs did not have their mutations yet so that also made it impossible

[Drexelhand]

1. Do we think Moira told Charles to seek out Erik and win him to their side? They wait until ~UXM 150 to try to recruit him to their side, but did Charles know how important Magneto was going to be when he met him in Israel?

Well, there's no knowing that Charles associated the hospital volunteer Erik Lehnsherr with the Magneto he saw in Moira's memories until he crushed Strucker's hand. At that point, it may not have even been important to him (since he was there for Gabrielle Haller). He might have put two and two together after that, but like I've said, it's not what he was there for.

As for Moira telling him to seek out Erik, the X-Men did tell Charles how Magneto stopped fighting and just gave up after striking Kitty Pryde. He must have told Moira since they were in regular correspondence at the time and she probably realized how vulnerable he was and that there was no better time to recruit him. It's not really a retcon, it just adds some more context to Magneto joining the X-Men in issue 200.

2. Did Charles doubt Moira's message? Are we really to believe that the entire time we've been reading X-Men comics Charles was basically lying when he said all he wanted was Mutants and Humans to live together? Or did Genosha/Wanda finally radicalize him to Moira's side? In Moira's Journal entries she implies that Xavier is struggling to get on board with her plan/message but how much of 1963-2019 Xavier was a put on until they could form the Five and enact Moira's plan?

Yeah, it's pretty clear that he was doubting her message up until he returned as the Man Called X in Fantomex's body at which point his behavior and methods changed entirely. But even before that, you can see the cracks start to form with what he did in Deadly Genesis, then in Original Sin, the Legacy Virus crisis, then they grow in Onslaught, in the Twelve and Dream's End. Pretty much, Charles' behavior changing and becoming more aggressive can be tracked along that line up until him getting shot in the head by Bishop. So just like with the retcon providing more context to Magneto joining the X-Men, this retcon provides more context to why Charles changed so much the way he did up until Messiah Complex and why he acted the way he did after his resurrection.

3. When did Charles and Erik approach Mr. Sinister? What era is that? I can't seem to figure out where that would fit in continuity

Going by his wheelchair, after the Muir Island Saga but before X-Men Vol 2 1-3 since Magneto hadn't turned on Charles and Moira yet.

4. How do we explain Moria's role in the Deadly Genesis mini? Why is she the one resisting forming the X-Men again to save the 05 if she knows how important they are? What do we make of that video tape she left the X-Men where she's afraid Charles will wipe her memory clean?

Charles acted in a way that Moira didn't expect and it's clear that she was afraid that he'd throw her plans in jeopardy.

5. Why did they wait until now to enact the plan? What was the impetus for finally launching Krakoa as the plan now?

After Age of X-Man, the mutants kind of have a revelation that they don't need to define themselves by how the world sees them. With most of the world's mutants going through an experience like that and wanting it for real (but with sex) makes it a reasonable time for Charles and Moira to start.

[Slicknickshady]

This whole Moira thing can’t be whiped out and retconned away soon enough.

[DarkMagnus]

i dont hate the retcon.

But i hate that we were promised a Moira Book and that book will give answers.