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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's Morrison's version of what Superman would be, minus the Crisis. And he pulled it off. You can't expect every writer to pull it off. You're just as likely to wind up with a crappy story as you are an All Star Superman. Honestly, trying to imagine where all these heroes would be in a Crisis free world is no different than any other big reboot, and just as likely to create crappy takes as good ones.
    I think Jim's point was that it wasn't necessary to do COIE to progress the universe, because it just tangled everything in nots. Stuff like All-Star is an example of what the DCU could look like if it wasn't concerned with constantly rebooting and rebuilding continuity. Stuff was changing pre-COIE and there is no reason it couldn't have continued to grow organically from there.

    It's way too late to reverse now, but it was never necessary to begin with.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think Jim's point was that it wasn't necessary to do COIE to progress the universe, because it just tangled everything in nots. Stuff like All-Star is an example of what the DCU could look like if it wasn't concerned with constantly rebooting and rebuilding continuity. Stuff was changing pre-COIE and there is no reason it couldn't have continued to grow organically from there.

    It's way too late to reverse now, but it was never necessary to begin with.
    Thanks. That pretty much sums up what I meant.
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  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    What I prefer is a pre-Crisis state of mind for the characters, generally. Not necessarily a desire to actually in lore revert to that continuity (as much as that existed back then). Certain characterizations, certain status quos, absolutely. Of course that's not wholesale either.

    So basically what I prefer is a majority pre-Crisis inspiration over post-Crisis. Both are severely dated, but inspiration-wise, to mold into modern stories, I find pre-Crisis largely the superior template.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 04-15-2021 at 11:05 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  4. #34
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    First, in regard to the ‘problems that already existed,’ I’d argue with all my might that there weren’t any pre-Crisis problems. That was something DC dreamed up because they underestimated their readers’ intelligence.
    It was really just an excuse for DC to use instead of saying "We need to shake things up with something major or we're out of business, guys!" If sales had been as good or better than Marvel's, there wouldn't have been a COIE at all.

    As for the OP's question, if there were another reboot, I would rather just take the good stuff from the past universes instead of resurrecting the dead.
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  5. #35
    Mighty Member Mike's Avatar
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    As much as I would like to see the return of the pre-Crisis DC... It's way to late.
    To much water under the bridge.

  6. #36
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    I think the main problem was they were shifting from mass market sales where they were stronger, but mass market outlets were dying off, to direct sales, where they were weaker and Marvel was stronger.

    I can see them doing some kind of big event, I just don't agree it had to be what we got. Also, even though I hated when New 52 did it, starting all the books at number 1 is an effective hail mary pass to jumpstart sales--it's just not something that should be done too often. However, there were relatively few new number 1s after Crisis and most titles just kept going rather than getting a restart.

    The problem is these are short term solutions and what they really needed was a better plan for how to generate more profit and revitalize the comics market for the future. Maybe if the publishers all got together and devised a better distribution model and developing new places to promote and sell comics, they could have built a marketing system that had legs. For that they needed to invest capital--I guess big brother Warner Communications wasn't willing to share the wealth.

    The multiverse was the best fictional device for giving worlds a new life. The Crisis showed what a great vehicle it could be--and yet it ends with the multiverse being destroyed. Moreover, the big shock of the Crisis--all that death and destruction--was forgotten by all the major characters. So any fall-out from the Crisis couldn't really make it into the new books. Superman couldn't remember that Supergirl died. The heroes of Earth-Two were forgotten. It was remembered that Barry died in a Crisis, but the nature of the Crisis was forgotten. If they were going to do a big event like this, it should have had more impact on the characters.
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  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    The short answer is yes, the long answer is no. Yes because I prefer that particular universe over the current one and it was clearly more stable. Marvel proved that you can make stories that have been around for decades still fit. No because so much time has passed, I don't think that fixes the long term problem. How would all the characters created since then fit into the "old" continuity? What would be Kyle's origin, for instance? It's tied into the whole Parallax thing. Which itself is tied into the death of Superman storyline. Any going back to the old timeliine would require HUGE tweaking of a lot of character's histories.

    I hate to say this but I think the only real solution is a hard reboot. Like, Wally going back to being Kid Flash and Dick going back to being Robin type hard reboot. Think the first season of Young Justice type continuity. There's no way that they could get fans to agree to that. And that's even assuming you trust the current management not to screw that up. The best case scenario is something like what the last issue of Doomsday Clock did where every previous continuity gets it's own universe and all your favorite stories are still out there somewhere.
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  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    They'll never hard reboot because they won't want to lose all the legacy (really Dick Grayson is the only one who can show up pretty much immediately, though first gen Titans wouldn't have to be that far behind). Personally I'd think it'd be way worth it, but if Didio of all people couldn't even bring himself to do it with his "reboot", then it'll never happen. But in any case I do agree with your main point, the continuity as it is now is irrevocably broken.
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  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    ITT: Boomers, rise up!

    No. Suggesting this essentially argues nothing of value has been published in the nearly four decades to follow, which is just not possible.

    This sort of idea only appeals to tired old fans who can not accept anything new and catering to them is suicidal for any business hoping to survive.

    Take what works from every era and always forge ahead.

  10. #40
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Most definitely...perhaps as a "classics" line.

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  11. #41
    Incredible Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    As an Elseworld/Alternate Universe, yes.

    In the main continuity, no, the only way to fix the current problem is either making a hard reboot or just telling people what stories are canon.

    Of course the second solution involves a deep work in their mythos.

    The stories that are not canon in the main line are moved to another universe.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    ITT: Boomers, rise up!

    No. Suggesting this essentially argues nothing of value has been published in the nearly four decades to follow, which is just not possible.

    This sort of idea only appeals to tired old fans who can not accept anything new and catering to them is suicidal for any business hoping to survive.

    Take what works from every era and always forge ahead.
    I mean, to a large extent, a lot of Pre Crisis stuff was restored during the 2000's, when Silver Age nostalgia started to hit its peak.

    But I think we've reached a point where its the Modern Age Post-COIE period that's riding the nostalgia wave now...hence Rebirth and everything that has followed ever since.

    I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if 10-15 years from now, New 52 nostalgia becomes a thing

  13. #43
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    ...I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if 10-15 years from now, New 52 nostalgia becomes a thing
    Hm. If it had lasted a bit longer, I'd think you might be right.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    As for the OP's question, if there were another reboot, I would rather just take the good stuff from the past universes instead of resurrecting the dead.
    Hopefully that's what Infinite Frontier will turn out to be.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I'm happier with the DCU we had prior to "Flashpoint." Most continuity issues had been ironed out and it seemed that most everyone had a place to play - JSA era, silver age era and modern era legacy heroes. Beyond that, the other reboots tended to make continuity much more confusing again and it's never been reconciled since.

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