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  1. #16
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Well Marty Mc Fly had a cartoon show and comic book series, so I think he's saying Supernatural held down a bunch of different shows too.
    He's saying he's surprised that characters from Supernatural - including those specifically from the anime and extended universe - aren't on the list. I explained why.

  2. #17
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Eh, if Maxwell Lord is included then he probably should have his powers. Unless his powers are to hard to quantify or use for Rumblers purposes.
    And with that the rest of the Domino's will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    He's saying he's surprised that characters from Supernatural - including those specifically from the anime and extended universe - aren't on the list. I explained why.
    No, it was that they held down a lot of different mediums like some of the other names used. As for values; it honestly depends on the season of the series used. First few seasons, Sam Winchester had various demonic powers. Later on, Dean gains demonic powers of his own. Both have also been possessed (Dean by Archangel Michael, no less), and Castiel for awhile had wings that allowed him to practically teleport, until he lost them.

    Then there's a whole host of a somewhat revolving door of side characters (15 years, that's gonna happen) of varying different levels. From regular humans (with guns, generally), to a nephelim that goes on to usurp corrupted God (his grandfather). So, yeah. Not sure on the individual values, personally. Nor how many side characters to put in.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    More...

    Darkseid (DCEU) 9
    Melisandre (Game of Thrones) 3

    For the record, when it comes to Snyder Cut characters, I think we should just consider them the same ones as the rest of the DCEU and include all feats. It's not as though we did two Michael Myers (from different timelines) or two Thanos (from two timelines). We just accept they're the same character and combine feats. If that results in some price amendments to existing characters on the list, so be it.
    Darkseid seems a bit high, he kind of sucked in the Snyder Cut

  5. #20
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Darkseid seems a bit high, he kind of sucked in the Snyder Cut
    He is stronger then SWolf and has Omega Beams, and he is under Supes who is 10. It sounds about right.
    And with that the rest of the Domino's will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

  6. #21
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    No, it was that they held down a lot of different mediums like some of the other names used. As for values; it honestly depends on the season of the series used. First few seasons, Sam Winchester had various demonic powers. Later on, Dean gains demonic powers of his own. Both have also been possessed (Dean by Archangel Michael, no less), and Castiel for awhile had wings that allowed him to practically teleport, until he lost them.

    Then there's a whole host of a somewhat revolving door of side characters (15 years, that's gonna happen) of varying different levels. From regular humans (with guns, generally), to a nephelim that goes on to usurp corrupted God (his grandfather). So, yeah. Not sure on the individual values, personally. Nor how many side characters to put in.
    It's no different to any other character on the list - you take their most consistent form as it was in their most recent (living) appearance. So Buffy Summers is an experienced slayer who doesn't have the powers she possessed when she merged with her friends, but also isn't a 15-year-old girl. Arya Stark is a combat-adept teenager rather than a defenceless little girl. Iron Man is wearing his nanotech armour, rather than the one he burst out of a cave with. Captain America, however, requires some common sense - he wouldn't be an old man, despite that being his most recent appearance, because that's not what is consistent with his character.

    Appearances in non-live action form simply don't count. Discard them completely. They never happened.

  7. #22
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    Eh, if Maxwell Lord is included then he probably should have his powers. Unless his powers are to hard to quantify or use for Rumblers purposes.
    He used an item that wasn't his standard equipment - he neither started or ended the movie with it and spent more time without it. However, he could prove useful, as it showed him as being adept at using powerful items.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    It's no different to any other character on the list - you take their most consistent form as it was in their most recent (living) appearance. So Buffy Summers is an experienced slayer who doesn't have the powers she possessed when she merged with her friends, but also isn't a 15-year-old girl. Arya Stark is a combat-adept teenager rather than a defenceless little girl. Iron Man is wearing his nanotech armour, rather than the one he burst out of a cave with. Captain America, however, requires some common sense - he wouldn't be an old man, despite that being his most recent appearance, because that's not what is consistent with his character.

    Appearances in non-live action form simply don't count. Discard them completely. They never happened.
    Okay.

    Dean-3 (has hunted supernatural and mythical creatures and beings since an early age, often at a disadvantage, but keeps putting them down regardless, including some of the most powerful beings, also God/Chuck literally gave them plot armor through most of the series)
    Sam-3 (same as Dean)
    Castiel-4 (older and more experienced with powers, but lost a number of them half way through the series, tends to have plot induced stupidity at times)

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Stigmazilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Okay.

    Dean-3 (has hunted supernatural and mythical creatures and beings since an early age, often at a disadvantage, but keeps putting them down regardless, including some of the most powerful beings, also God/Chuck literally gave them plot armor through most of the series)
    Sam-3 (same as Dean)
    Castiel-4 (older and more experienced with powers, but lost a number of them half way through the series, tends to have plot induced stupidity at times)
    I'm don't know much about Supernatural, but aren't Sam and Dean just normal guys for the most part? If they come equipped with the Colt then I suppose that should increase the value of them, or if they developed powers, but from what I've seen they couldn't take MCU Cap, or John Wick even.

    Castiel used to be a 7 on the old lists which topped out at comic Superman (not DCEU Superman who is the 10 here), and was worth the same as comics Mandarin who could fight Ironman and had a ton of other powers. Though you say he's lost power so I don't really know

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    I'm don't know much about Supernatural, but aren't Sam and Dean just normal guys for the most part? If they come equipped with the Colt then I suppose that should increase the value of them, or if they developed powers, but from what I've seen they couldn't take MCU Cap, or John Wick even.

    Castiel used to be a 7 on the old lists which topped out at comic Superman (not DCEU Superman who is the 10 here), and was worth the same as comics Mandarin who could fight Ironman and had a ton of other powers. Though you say he's lost power so I don't really know
    He lost his wings about midway through the series, and thus couldn't fly/teleport and what not. And half the time seemingly gets bodied like the others when he shouldn't. Old Cas, before that, yeah. 7 would be fine. But after that point, gotta deduct from it.

    Sam and Dean are, usually normal humans, but they have been fighting monsters and other such things where they normally have a big physical disadvantage, but still win. Even minor Gods they've taken on and beaten (angels were a mixed bag). They've often fought against beings on par with, or even above MCU Cap and came out on top. And a lot of the time, without the Colt.

  11. #26
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    He lost his wings about midway through the series, and thus couldn't fly/teleport and what not. And half the time seemingly gets bodied like the others when he shouldn't. Old Cas, before that, yeah. 7 would be fine. But after that point, gotta deduct from it.

    Sam and Dean are, usually normal humans, but they have been fighting monsters and other such things where they normally have a big physical disadvantage, but still win. Even minor Gods they've taken on and beaten (angels were a mixed bag). They've often fought against beings on par with, or even above MCU Cap and came out on top. And a lot of the time, without the Colt.
    I don't watch Supernatural, so I need to ask this: Are you incorporating context in your valuations here? Like Buffy Summers defeated the likes of Glory and Adam. Batfleck survived a fight with Doomsday. However, in Rumbles context - and based on their consistent levels of strength, speed and durability - those characters are valued lower than opponents they defeated or survived against, because context/PIS was involved.

    If you put Sam or Dean against MCU Cap, one-on-one in a fair fight, would Cap casually defeat them? If so, they shouldn't be the same value as him.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    I don't watch Supernatural, so I need to ask this: Are you incorporating context in your valuations here? Like Buffy Summers defeated the likes of Glory and Adam. Batfleck survived a fight with Doomsday. However, in Rumbles context - and based on their consistent levels of strength, speed and durability - those characters are valued lower than opponents they defeated or survived against, because context/PIS was involved.

    If you put Sam or Dean against MCU Cap, one-on-one in a fair fight, would Cap casually defeat them? If so, they shouldn't be the same value as him.
    That's the hard to say thing. Sam and Dean have faced countless beings that would give Cap a run for his money, and have killed just as many, without having said powers. Werewolves, Demonically possessed people, and Vampires among said beings. And about half the time, outnumbered by said beings.

    Yeah, I know. Its like, "Wait, these guys (normally) don't have super powers!" but they have taken down quite a few of them anyway. That's how Supernatural was written.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member Stigmazilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    That's the hard to say thing. Sam and Dean have faced countless beings that would give Cap a run for his money, and have killed just as many, without having said powers. Werewolves, Demonically possessed people, and Vampires among said beings. And about half the time, outnumbered by said beings.

    Yeah, I know. Its like, "Wait, these guys (normally) don't have super powers!" but they have taken down quite a few of them anyway. That's how Supernatural was written.
    How are they defeating these creatures? Are they beating werewolves up with their bare hands? And how strong are these monsters? Strong enough to flip cars? flip trains? What is normal in the presentation of these characters?

    EDIT: I went and read Dean's wiki page, and assuming we are going with just their human forms (which seems to be the standard) then they are just tough, skilled guys who beat monsters through a mix of PIS, skill, and luck. Nothing indicates that they should beat Daniel Craig Bond a high percentage of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    Eh, if Maxwell Lord is included then he probably should have his powers. Unless his powers are to hard to quantify or use for Rumblers purposes.
    I wouldn't know where to start with the Wishing Stone, though I suppose we can work on that if people wish.
    Last edited by Stigmazilla; 04-16-2021 at 06:15 PM.

  14. #29
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    When it comes to power ranking, are we counting characters at their peak (without temporary powerups)? Illyria is on this list and I'm assuming this is Illyria at Full Power. If so, then Castiel deserves a higher ranking. Before his Seraph-ranked power and wings were forcibly removed/downgraded, Castiel was a formidable character. He's right up there with Illyria.


    Is it too late to sign up for the Rumblers League?
    Witness the legendary battle: GODZILLA vs. BAMBI

  15. #30
    Mighty Member Stigmazilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    Eh, if Maxwell Lord is included then he probably should have his powers. Unless his powers are to hard to quantify or use for Rumblers purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    When it comes to power ranking, are we counting characters at their peak (without temporary powerups)? Illyria is on this list and I'm assuming this is Illyria at Full Power. If so, then Castiel deserves a higher ranking. Before his Seraph-ranked power and wings were forcibly removed/downgraded, Castiel was a formidable character. He's right up there with Illyria.


    Is it too late to sign up for the Rumblers League?
    Not my call but I'm sure we can fit two Zillas in this League.

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