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  1. #151
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    That isn't and never was my only point.
    You yourself said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Writing characters who got created to be comparably powerful as clearly less powerful is kind of disrespectful.
    Captain Marvel was created to be a certain power level and capable of certain feats, to the point where Superman was scaled up to his level and borrowed other elements from him. By saying Shazam shouldn't be as equally strong as Superman or Wonder Woman, you are ignoring your own stance and it's hard to find coherency in your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    The decisions for Wonder Woman in the Silver Age were objectively silly, and didn't work out at all, to bring this into a discussion about how characters are meant to be is like bringing Jeansman from New 52 into this
    Well, Jeansman from the New 52 IS actually what a modern Superman should be like, so we're not going to see eye to eye there


    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Feats, when turned this into a rumbles discussion, and when was the last time Shazam showed much feats?
    Probably not that many, but by your own arguments if he's living in a shared universe, he's now the victim of silly decisions and being nerfed like Wonder Woman was in the Silver Age and this should be rectified. Unless you think this should only apply to Wonder Woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    An invisibe jet that can fly fast enough that Wonder Woman can accidentally end up in another universe, is far more ridiculous by modern standards than something almost trivial like flying faster than light on your own.
    But you want her to return to her Golden Age level feats, but now they are ridiculous?
    Is Marston the correct vision for WW, or isn't he? You seem to want to have it both ways.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    And then shit like Mongul vs Wonder Woman happened, but to be fair i guess you could say that was the start of a new age already.
    To be fair, pre-Crisis Mongul is a villain who even pre-Crisis Superman couldn't definitively beat, and doesn't even in this story. He needs to be saved by....Jason Todd, a non powered teenager.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Making a list for Wonder Woman alone would take hours, because there is just so much.
    You only ever seem to post about this topic, but never produce a list for why these stories are impacting her negatively.

    If anything, shit like Injustice is far worse for her than anything from pre-Crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Could you please give me a quote where i say Shazam should be inferior to Superman or Wonder Woman? That doesn't even make sense considering that i have said the top superheroes who fit should all be comparable in power in this thread, more than once.
    Here you go, in this very post lol:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Feats, when turned this into a rumbles discussion, and when was the last time Shazam showed much feats?
    So you don't seem to consistently care about Captain Marvel's feats or what his level should be at.

    Because your posts really aren't "Superman being the strongest is creating a problem for all other characters!" but actually "My favorite character isn't the undisputed strongest and I resent that fact."

    Also, in the other thread you said this in response to Captain Marvel being on par or a bit stronger than Wonder Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    When has any writer of him ever talked about Wonder Womann, or when was there ever any meaningful direct comparison, or anything saying he is meant to be on par let alone stronger?.
    So you clearly don't like the idea of Captain Marvel even being equally strong to WW. Or you seemingly change your mind every other post.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 04-20-2021 at 01:58 PM.

  2. #152
    Kon-El "The Scion" SuperX's Avatar
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    Captain marvel is the world's mightiest mortal
    Flash is the fastest man alive

    Superman is neither of them being a alien thst will probably live forever, so I don't see any problem with superman being treated amd seen as top dog, cause it doesn't take away from Billy or Barry's shtcicks at all
    Where is my damn Tactile Telekinesis?
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  3. #153
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitagon View Post
    Best Superman
    2. Physical Strength - strongest in the League. Characters like Wonder Woman, Shazam and Martian Manhunter should be slightly weaker than him. I don't like Superman "bullying" Wonder Woman, Snyder-cut style. I prefer for the difference in their strength to be like the realistic difference of a human male Clark's size compared to a human female of Diana's size.
    That would be a bigger gap than what was shown in the Snyder Cut.

  4. #154
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    Captain marvel is the world's mightiest mortal
    Flash is the fastest man alive

    Superman is neither of them being a alien thst will probably live forever, so I don't see any problem with superman being treated amd seen as top dog, cause it doesn't take away from Billy or Barry's shtcicks at all
    It definitely would negatively impact Barry. Even in pre-Crisis, when the two were closer in speed, it was still a given that Barry was faster, even if just by a bit.

    Superman's shtick is that he is the most powerful all rounder, being faster is taking away Barry's one thing. Just like Superman should have a strong will but the GLs would be next level, and WW should lack any weaknesses and have more fighting skills to balance out not being quite as high in stats as he is. Which in some ways should make her more dangerous.

    Billy should be on his own Earth, because he's essentially just Superman again.

  5. #155
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    What I got from watching the Snyder Cut is that Superman is returned from the dead using some technology that's a combo of Kryptonian and New Gods. So right there, that's a good reason for him to be powered up. And he's out of his mind, not controlling himself. Whereas the other heroes aren't trying to hurt him, they want to calm him down and help him. So he's using his full powered up power against them, while they're playing defence.

    Once he regains his senses, he puts on a black Kryptonian tech suit--which I imagine is supposed to help him getting back to life--and he then flies up high above the Earth in the full light of the Sun. Which I take to show him absorbing more power, so he can be fully prepared for the task at hand. Black absorbs more light.

    I don't feel like I'm making this up--that's what the movie clearly shows me.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You yourself said:
    How is that making it my only point?

    Captain Marvel was created to be a certain power level and capable of certain feats, to the point where Superman was scaled up to his level and borrowed other elements from him. By saying Shazam shouldn't be as equally strong as Superman or Wonder Woman, you are ignoring your own stance and it's hard to find coherency in your argument.
    What are you even talking about?

    Well, Jeansman from the New 52 IS actually what a modern Superman should be like, so we're not going to see eye to eye there
    I hope that is just a joke?

    Probably not that many, but by your own arguments if he's living in a shared universe, he's now the victim of silly decisions and being nerfed like Wonder Woman was in the Silver Age and this should be rectified. Unless you think this should only apply to Wonder Woman?
    From where are you getting this odd idea, that i would think Shazam should be inferior to Superman or Wonder Woman?

    But you want her to return to her Golden Age level feats, but now they are ridiculous?
    Is Marston the correct vision for WW, or isn't he? You seem to want to have it both ways.
    Many parts of the Golden and Silver Age are ridiculous, i just want her to be not inferior to Superman, and i think these characters could be planetary and faster than light but not to the toon forceish levels of back then.

    And i am again just talking about general power, Superman could be stronger, more durable and have higher travel speed as example, while Wonder Woman is more skilled and has the necessary support stats of higher combat and reaction speed to the degree to even it out, and Shazam has less strength and durability than Superman as example but can power up his hits with magic and has a better regeneration to the degree to even that out, and so on.

    To be fair, pre-Crisis Mongul is a villain who even pre-Crisis Superman couldn't definitively beat, and doesn't even in this story. He needs to be saved by....Jason Todd, a non powered teenager.
    We don't need to talk about how silly many interaction of the Bat family with way too strong beings is, that is a given.

    You only ever seem to post about this topic, but never produce a list for why these stories are impacting her negatively.
    That is wrong, and do you now truly want a list?

    If anything, shit like Injustice is far worse for her than anything from pre-Crisis.
    I don't think i have ever said it was always worse before the crisis than at each single point afterwards, but Injustice is trash of the highest order, and shouldn't be a measurement for anything.

    Here you go, in this very post lol:
    What the heck are you even talking about?

    So you don't seem to consistently care about Captain Marvel's feats or what his level should be at.
    I have no idea how you even came to that conclusion Doctor Freud?

    Because your posts really aren't "Superman being the strongest is creating a problem for all other characters!" but actually "My favorite character isn't the undisputed strongest and I resent that fact."
    And i am sure you have any proof for this silly allegation, after i said that all the top superheroes who fit should be comparibly powerful, am i right?

    Also, in the other thread you said this in response to Captain Marvel being on par or a bit stronger than Wonder Woman
    You by the way still did not answer my question about why the same archetype should make Shazam stronger?

    So you clearly don't like the idea of Captain Marvel even being equally strong to WW. Or you seemingly change your mind every other post.
    Or you clearly should stop playing Doctor Freud, and just ask about what i truly think instead of telling me what i would allegedly think, how about that? I was only ever talking about a lack of Shazam having a direct comparison with Wonder Woman, because both are just meant to be comparable with Superman like i have said in that thread, but just indirectly with each other.

  7. #157
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    I hope that is just a joke?
    Um...why? Why should anyone liking New 52/Golden Age Superman be a joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Or you clearly should stop playing Doctor Freud, and just ask about what i truly think instead of telling me what i would allegedly think, how about that? I was only ever talking about a lack of Shazam having a direct comparison with Wonder Woman, because both are just meant to be comparable with Superman like i have said in that thread, but just indirectly with each other.
    Just narrowing this down:

    I'm not playing Dr. Freud. I'm using what you give us. You are saying right here that both are designed to be comparable to Superman, but also balk at the idea of Captain Marvel being on par with Wonder Woman and wanting a list of feats to prove it or something. Or how the longer history of making Marvel Superman's equal opposite but not Wonder Woman is old, so it doesn't count, so he shouldn't be on par with her. Basically, you are either not very clear in what you are saying or contradict yourself and just go in circles.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 04-22-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Um...why? Why should anyone liking New 52/Golden Age Superman be a joke?
    Because at that point makes this entire discussion no sense anymore

    Just narrowing this down:

    I'm not playing Dr. Freud. I'm using what you give us.
    No, you are just claiming to know what i allegedly think.

    You are saying right here that both are designed to
    be comparable to Superman
    Correct.

    , but also balk at the idea of Captain Marvel being on par with Wonder Woman
    Incorrect.

    and wanting a list of feats to prove it or something.
    You were the 1 bringing up feats, not me.

    Or how the longer history of making Marvel Superman's equal opposite
    but not Wonder Woman is old
    What are you even talking about, Wonder Woman and Shazam both started like that, and Shazam had just at some point the benefits of being on the shelves, no sexism against him, and some others, but on the other hand got it even worse in modern times.

    , so it doesn't count
    Count for what?

    , so he shouldn't be on par with her.
    Why not?

    Basically, you are either not very clear in what you are saying or contradict yourself and just go in circles.
    Or you just assume what i would allegedly think, instead of just asking me what i actually think.......

  9. #159
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Or you just assume what i would allegedly think, instead of just asking me what i actually think.......
    But again, this is only topic you ever seem to ever post about (like in the Superman board as well), so it's pretty clear what everyone thinks. The response to why Superman shouldn't be the strongest doesn't ever go beyond "because then my favorites aren't getting their due the way I subjectively think they should," and everyone has already made up their mind on where they stand on it.

    I also think things would be more clear if you didn't break up parts of my sentences (not even whole ones) into different quotes, making it all a pain to respond to.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 04-23-2021 at 06:02 AM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    But again, this is only topic you ever seem to ever post about (like in the Superman board as well)
    It would truly help if you just stop to make wild assumptions about what i allegedly think or do, just a fraction of my 439 posts were about the power standing of Superman.

    , so it's pretty clear what everyone thinks. The response to why Superman shouldn't be the strongest doesn't ever go beyond "because then my favorites aren't getting their due the way I subjectively think they should," and everyone has already made up their mind on where they stand on it.
    Even that simple reasoning sounds like a better argument than Superman was the first superhero therefore he should make other superheroes look inferior for some reason.

    I also think things would be more clear if you didn't break up parts of my sentences (not even whole ones) into different quotes, making it all a pain to respond to.
    I do that to make sure it is clear to which part of the post i am responding with what part of my post.
    Last edited by Rightoya; 04-24-2021 at 03:23 PM.

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