A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!
Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010
Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362
THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?
But your entire point is that characters who were created to be comparable to Superman not being able to be so is "disrespectful." the creations happened WAY before post-Crisis and modern versions, so you actually haven't been talking about that era
She doesn't have her powers in Valhalla, and actually dies in the issues. It doesn't make any sense to bring it up, it's not relevant to this discussion.
Because we're talking about entire history, not just recent events. By bringing in the decisions of the Silver Age for Wonder Woman and Crisis and the creations of the characters, we are factoring in all history and how things used to be. We can't move the goal posts when it comes time to consider Captain Marvel's feats but move them back for Marston and WW.
I think they were too busy turning her book into a bland heteronormative romance comic to make a conscious decision to exclude her from the power creep.
There is also the fact that Marston didn't want her to fly even after Superman started, so he ignored the power creep as well.
lol It wasn't very consistent afterwards either. If anything, it was less so.
Pre-Crisis Bronze Age. I have quite a few books from that era where Superman rarely crosses over into other peoples books and when he does, they are still the main characters and all characters are treated well. the Phantom Zone mini is again a good showing for WW, GL and Batman even though it's a Kryptonian book. He is undisputedly the #1 guy in that era, and still needed Swamp Thing's help on two occasions. It's really not that hard, for some reason post-Crisis writers and fans make it out to be this insurmountable problem.
But again, he was the most overall powerful and was on the JL in pre-Crisis and even in the Silver Age JL comics they managed fine. You're not listing a reason for how he's negatively impacting them in any meaningful way
Wait, so we're back to Shazam not meant to be inferior to Superman or Wonder Woman? I thought you said he should be because of post-COIE? There's not a lot of consistency here.
Except nobody is saying he should be faster than the Flash, have stronger will power than the GL, shapeshift and have telepathy like J'onn, etc. because those were never things to begin with and we have actual published DC material to back that up. Any Superman fan saying he should be more skilled than WW and be able to break her lasso need to shut up, but I don't think there are many Superman fans (at least on here) who actually believe that should be the case.
Others like the Marvel Family and Captain Atom should be on different Earths. None of the characters involved really benefit from being in the same continuity with each other, especially Billy.
good that things change, but in everything. Superman will no longer be the strongest, he will be the second, he will lose all his weaknesses and will appear in others' comics as if they were his own, he will begin to use all the technology of the fortress. ww to be the strongest, by very little, will develop 3 or 4 weaknesses and superman will appear in his comics every 2 or 3 months, without forgetting that superman being a Kryptonian with infinite experience is always described as a naive idiot, now it's his turn To ww, she will be an idiot who does not know the most basic of the modern world and she will be even if she spends 1000 years in it.
Man alive! There was a T.V. program called MAN ALIVE in Canada from the 1960s to 2000, which was about faith (but not one of your religious programs)--the series took its title from a poem by a 2nd century bishop--"The glory of God is man fully alive, and the life of man is the vision of God." So that's what I always think of. And in Britain, they had a documentary program called MAN ALIVE (1965 - 1981).
So I can see the charm in "The Fastest Man Alive"--but when it came to the pre-Crisis Earth-One characters (my favourites) I could never square Barry being the fastest over Superman. It just didn't make sense when I thought it through. IF Barry is a regular guy who just happens to run fast then he wouldn't have all the powers of Superman. The Man of Steel is invulnerable, super-strong, can fly and can fly through space without the need to breathe. It just makes sense to me that Supes would be able to withstand forces that would kill Barry, IF Barry is a "man."
In order for Barry to be faster than Superman, I'd have to invent all kinds of other powers for him--he'd have to be invulnerable, super-strong, capable of surviving in a total vacuum and capable of becoming something that is faster than light so its material make-up is not bounded by the limitations of electrons, protons and photons. So if Barry were that powerful, why was he wasting his time on Earth and not employing his full potential?
Maybe Barry isn't actually a human being. Maybe that lightning bolt was actually some kind of god-like force that killed and destroyed Barry and then remade him in an instant, but for some reason that god-force intentionally forgot its actual state and totally became Barry Allen. That would explain how Barry as the Flash can do all the miraculous things he does and how Wally just happened to get the same powers through an accident that seems highly unlikely. So then Barry is actually the speed-god, who isn't bounded by the laws of space or time.
A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!
Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010
Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362
THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?
At best, he'd be tied with several other heroes.
But it's weird to be talking about "Accurately" with a genre and medium that is very fictional and involves multiple, different versions of the same character(s).
Gotta say, I feel for Superman fans sometimes. Not only does your character suffer from consistently poor management, you also get silly fanboy resentment over his power levels, despite the fact that for a long time now, Superman is only consistently portrayed as the strongest hero. Otherwise, dude has been beatable for a long time.
flash powers.
Super velocity.
shield that protects him and his environment (gives him a resistance comparable to superman and allows him to hit with the same force).
steal and speed
vibrate their molecules and those of their enemies.
travel in time. travel to other dimensions.
perceive the future.
That without counting the thousand forces that are connected to the speed force.
Realism is a sucker's game. Not just in super-hero comics, but in all storytelling.
"You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."
Well, I have a lot of time on my hands. Or more accurately, instead of thinking about the stuff I should be thinking about, I spend far too much time thinking about super-heroes. And when I do, it seems to me that a lot of them should be more powerful than what we usually see. Characters, like Flash, Atom, Aquaman, Plastic Man, Metamorpho could do so much more with what they have. Yet, those guys rarely get the stories where the super-hero thinks "all this power, so much, the awesome responsibility, the burden" and then goes into exile because he can't handle it anymore. Maybe Flash has done that once or twice. But it seems like only a few get the Dr. Manhattan treatment.
Wonder Woman is now called a god. What's she doing on Earth? She should be on Mt. Olympus with the other gods staring down at us petty humans and laughing at us.
Well, demi-god. But they do seem to treat it as the essentially the same thing
I really don't get what it is about a superhuman Amazon that modern creators can't wrap their heads around that they need to go the god route. Why the need to insert divine blood into her at all? What was so difficult to understand before?
To the point where Steppenwolf's "You have the blood of the old gods in you" line in JL made me groan.
They can't even wrap their heads around Superman without making him Jesus. He's just an alien fella's let's leave it at that.
I know the Christ allegory isn't so heavy in the comics, but it's been in there from time-to-time.
But yeah, seriously, no one ever questioned why WW or Sups can bench-press mountains before they got struck with the divinity shtick.
That isn't and never was my only point.
To me it makes sense.She doesn't have her powers in Valhalla, and actually dies in the issues. It doesn't make any sense to bring it up, it's not relevant to this discussion.
The decisions for Wonder Woman in the Silver Age were objectively silly, and didn't work out at all, to bring this into a discussion about how characters are meant to be is like bringing Jeansman from New 52 into thisBecause we're talking about entire history, not just recent events. By bringing in the decisions of the Silver Age for Wonder Woman and Crisis and the creations of the characters, we are factoring in all history and how things used to be.
Feats, when turned this into a rumbles discussion, and when was the last time Shazam showed much feats?We can't move the goal posts when it comes time to consider Captain Marvel's feats but move them back for Marston and WW.
That excludes her from it, and was part of their conscious decision.I think they were too busy turning her book into a bland heteronormative romance comic to make a conscious decision to exclude her from the power creep.
An invisibe jet that can fly fast enough that Wonder Woman can accidentally end up in another universe, is far more ridiculous by modern standards than something almost trivial like flying faster than light on your own.There is also the fact that Marston didn't want her to fly even after Superman started, so he ignored the power creep as well.
You must talk about a rather short time during only the bronze age.lol It wasn't very consistent afterwards either. If anything, it was less so.
And then **** like Mongul vs Wonder Woman happened, but to be fair i guess you could say that was the start of a new age already.Pre-Crisis Bronze Age. I have quite a few books from that era where Superman rarely crosses over into other peoples books and when he does, they are still the main characters and all characters are treated well. the Phantom Zone mini is again a good showing for WW, GL and Batman even though it's a Kryptonian book.
Because an undisputed #1 in a shared verse full of heroes who are not meant to be what any other character in One Punch Man is to Saitama, will sooner or later always run into trouble, even with just 1 but much more with several different writers.He is undisputedly the #1 guy in that era, and still needed Swamp Thing's help on two occasions. It's really not that hard, for some reason post-Crisis writers and fans make it out to be this insurmountable problem.
Who was doing fine in the Silver Age comics? Wonder Woman didn't, Shazam or Captain Marvel barely existed, Martian Manhunter got worse as Superman became more active in the Justice League, and so on. And do you really want a general list of Superman negatively affecting other superheroes with power? Making a list for Wonder Woman alone would take hours, because there is just so much.But again, he was the most overall powerful and was on the JL in pre-Crisis and even in the Silver Age JL comics they managed fine. You're not listing a reason for how he's negatively impacting them in any meaningful way
Could you please give me a quote where i say Shazam should be inferior to Superman or Wonder Woman? That doesn't even make sense considering that i have said the top superheroes who fit should all be comparable in power in this thread, more than once.Wait, so we're back to Shazam not meant to be inferior to Superman or Wonder Woman? I thought you said he should be because of post-COIE? There's not a lot of consistency here.
My first response in this thread was to someone who literally said Superman should be he be the best in each of his powers, which includes speed among other things.Except nobody is saying he should be faster than the Flash, have stronger will power than the GL, shapeshift and have telepathy like J'onn, etc. because those were never things to begin with and we have actual published DC material to back that up.
I would have strongly disagreed if you would have not mentioned on here, because especially the DCEU made it far worse, and not just in regards of claims in comparison with Wonder Woman.Any Superman fan saying he should be more skilled than WW and be able to break her lasso need to shut up, but I don't think there are many Superman fans (at least on here) who actually believe that should be the case.
It could probably work, but just without this odd idea that there must be a definitive top dog for some reason.Others like the Marvel Family and Captain Atom should be on different Earths. None of the characters involved really benefit from being in the same continuity with each other, especially Billy.
I think the problem with ww goddess and superman jesus is that they are only simple titles, they do not add anything to the characters. If being a goddess allowed ww to connect with the divine universe (other pantheons) I think the fans would not be so angry. If Superman being seen as Jesus allowed him to act as a guide to humanity and a kind of father to the rest of the heroes, I and the rest of the fans would not be so angry.