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  1. #61
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I didn't like Living Daylights tbh. But LtK was good.

    I had no idea Halle Berry was considered for a spinoff
    I'm not sure there were ever any SERIOUS plans; I think they were more putting out feelers at the time that, if the movie was successful, it may lead to a spin-off. But yeah, the fact that Michelle Yeoh's character didn't even get that is surprising, as it felt like they were setting her up for her own spin-off.

    Thinking back, I really don't remember much about the Dalton Bond movies. I remember Felix being fed to a shark, Bond going rogue, the 18-wheeler chase and the drug dealer, and Dalton parachuting onto a yacht and using the phone to call in before making time with the woman on the boat, though that was in the other Dalton movie. And that's it. Yeah, Brosnan Bond's are a product of their time, but at least they were more memorable.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I didn't like Living Daylights tbh. But LtK was good.

    I had no idea Halle Berry was considered for a spinoff
    Living Daylights was written with Roger More in mind. Dalton played the role serious, as if you really could sled down a mountain in a cello case. License to Kill was darker and more fitting with dalton's approach.

    ... and then you get Wayne Newton

  3. #63
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'm not sure there were ever any SERIOUS plans; I think they were more putting out feelers at the time that, if the movie was successful, it may lead to a spin-off. But yeah, the fact that Michelle Yeoh's character didn't even get that is surprising, as it felt like they were setting her up for her own spin-off.

    Thinking back, I really don't remember much about the Dalton Bond movies. I remember Felix being fed to a shark, Bond going rogue, the 18-wheeler chase and the drug dealer, and Dalton parachuting onto a yacht and using the phone to call in before making time with the woman on the boat, though that was in the other Dalton movie. And that's it. Yeah, Brosnan Bond's are a product of their time, but at least they were more memorable.
    I think Dalton's were ahead of their time...they're actually much closer in tone to Craig's and would fit right in with them (minus the obvious Bourne-inspired elements of the early Craig movies). If you have the opportunity I'd give them a rewatch...you might be pleasantly surprised.

  4. #64
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    I agree Dalton worked better in the less campy ones

    I'd rather see a Michelle Yeoh spinoff than a Halle Berry one

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I'd rather see a Michelle Yeoh spinoff than a Halle Berry one
    If they were smart, they would have developed a new franchise starring the both of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    I think Dalton's were ahead of their time...they're actually much closer in tone to Craig's and would fit right in with them (minus the obvious Bourne-inspired elements of the early Craig movies). If you have the opportunity I'd give them a rewatch...you might be pleasantly surprised.
    I could be wrong, but wasn't Dalton's "Licence to Kill" influenced by "Miami Vice?" (with maybe a little "Scarface") That's why it was more grounded. That's why we had a British spy fighting a drug cartel.(and hey - Benicio del Toro! )
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 04-19-2021 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #66
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I could be wrong, but wasn't Dalton's "Licence to Kill" influenced by "Miami Vice?" (with maybe a little "Scarface") That's why it was more grounded. That's why we had a British spy fighting a drug cartel.(and hey - Benicio del Toro! )
    I wouldn't be surprised if Miami Vice had some kind of influence on License to Kill (after the initial Connery films, it seems like Bond movies started reacting to/emulating rhythms from other sources, versus being the ones setting the pace), but I do know some of the elements in the film, like Felix being attacked by the shark, are from the books. And The Living Daylights, which was Dalton's debut, was also more grounded/serious, a reversal of the Roger Moore era, without being beholden to a specific vibe like Miami Vice.

    I grew up during the Moore era so when I saw Living Daylights, and the opening scene with Dalton parachuting onto the boat and he tosses off a "Bond, James Bond." so quickly and matter-of-factly without a smug hold for applause or virtual wink at the camera, it was really shocking to me.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Miami Vice had some kind of influence on License to Kill (after the initial Connery films, it seems like Bond movies started reacting to/emulating rhythms from other sources, versus being the ones setting the pace), but I do know some of the elements in the film, like Felix being attacked by the shark, are from the books. And The Living Daylights, which was Dalton's debut, was also more grounded/serious, a reversal of the Roger Moore era, without being beholden to a specific vibe like Miami Vice.

    I grew up during the Moore era so when I saw Living Daylights, and the opening scene with Dalton parachuting onto the boat and he tosses off a "Bond, James Bond." so quickly and matter-of-factly without a smug hold for applause or virtual wink at the camera, it was really shocking to me.
    It feels like Bond doesn't really copy other genres anymore

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It feels like Bond doesn't really copy other genres anymore
    It was always ironic and ill-fitting to me that Bond ever imitated other genres - it's a genre unto itself!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    It was always ironic and ill-fitting to me that Bond ever imitated other genres - it's a genre unto itself!
    Exactly. Bond has his own stories. He doesn't need to copy others

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'm not sure there were ever any SERIOUS plans; I think they were more putting out feelers at the time that, if the movie was successful, it may lead to a spin-off. But yeah, the fact that Michelle Yeoh's character didn't even get that is surprising, as it felt like they were setting her up for her own spin-off.
    They were partially serious. But it never really gained traction and was abandoned. I also think they considered doing a spin-off just because Berry was in demand at the time.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It feels like Bond doesn't really copy other genres anymore
    I think "copying" is too strong of a word. Influenced is more like it. If you look at the Craig films, the first two were definitely cut from the same cloth as the Jason Bourne series that was a big moneymaker at that time, in terms of how the action was presented/delivered. Going back further, the last couple Pierce Brosnan films had a bit of the Michael Bay sheen that was becoming big thanks to films like the Rock or Armageddon.

    That said, I think with Skyfall, the Craig films readjusted to more "quintessential Bond," in part because that movie was a celebration of all things Bond, falling on an anniversary year and all that. And Spectre kept that up, as hamfisted as elements of that movie are, in part due to reclaiming the full rights to elements like Spectre and Blofeld after years of being in a legal quagmire (resulting in Never Say Never Again).
    Last edited by Kaijudo; 04-19-2021 at 11:09 PM.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    I think "copying" is too strong of a word. Influenced is more like it. If you look at the Craig films, the first two were definitely cut from the same cloth as the Jason Bourne series that was a big moneymaker at that time, in terms of how the action was presented/delivered. Going back further, the last couple Pierce Brosnan films had a bit of the Michael Bay sheen that was becoming big thanks to films like the Rock or Armageddon.

    That said, I think with Skyfall, the Craig films readjusted to more "quintessential Bond," in part because that movie was a celebration of all things Bond, falling on an anniversary year and all that. And Spectre kept that up, as hamfisted as elements of that movie are, in part due to reclaiming the full rights to elements like Spectre and Blofeld after years of being in a legal quagmire (resulting in Never Say Never Again).
    Oh yeah, I agree to his. Also at that time the spy genre was hot property, it has been re-defined by Jason Borne and Jack Bauer from the 24 series, so Pierce's Bond still trying to be campy and over the top, like the Iceland scenes from die an another day was rubbing people the wrong way, they just could not take that seriously. When Craig's Casino Royale came along, Bond had kind of done a 180 as a more though hard nail guy.

    It was such a different kind of Bond, that 2006's Mission Impossible 3 with Tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt were sort of dismissed as silly nonsense by critics because they were judging mission impossible 3 by the Casino Royale standard that had come out the year before.

    I don't think any smile Craig did in Cassino Royale was never cynical. however that too robbed many Bond fans the wrong way. When Skyfall was out in 2012, 7 years had passed, Bond to me became the quintessential bond and maybe objectively the best Bond because he was not trying to be Jason Borne anymore neither was he trying to be a more modern campy kind of Bond like Bronsnan's Bond. Craig had come into his own in Skyfall and that was part of the reason Skyfall was awesome. It even became the highest grossing film of all time in the UK or something.

  13. #73
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    She was awful. I didn't at all buy her as a nuclear physicist.

    Honestly the Craig era is generally the best to me
    The Craig era has been up and down for me, but mostly down. I didn't really enjoy Casino Royale with its six million hour long card game. Card games are a means to an end in Bond films, not the movie itself. I came in open to the experiment of making a card game all full of suspense and intrigue but found that it failed and was boring. Not to mention that a game with the villain having direct life and death stakes had been done already with Sean Connery and with much more flair.

    Craig himself has been good at the character, though. He definitely plays a darker, meaner Bond reminiscent of the Dalton movies and some of the Connery era, which I do like.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    The Craig era has been up and down for me, but mostly down. I didn't really enjoy Casino Royale with its six million hour long card game. Card games are a means to an end in Bond films, not the movie itself. I came in open to the experiment of making a card game all full of suspense and intrigue but found that it failed and was boring. Not to mention that a game with the villain having direct life and death stakes had been done already with Sean Connery and with much more flair.

    Craig himself has been good at the character, though. He definitely plays a darker, meaner Bond reminiscent of the Dalton movies and some of the Connery era, which I do like.
    Ok. One of the reasons I like Craig's era is because the fight scenes are actually good to me. IMO pre-00s hand-to-hand fights in movies weren't great outside of wuxia

  15. #75
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Ok. One of the reasons I like Craig's era is because the fight scenes are actually good to me. IMO pre-00s hand-to-hand fights in movies weren't great outside of wuxia
    Totally agree on that point. The Craig action scenes and fights are bar none the best.

    No other Bond really comes close. Outside of the earliest Bond movies most of the fight scenes were either gimmicky or hilariously contrived.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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