Ed Brubabker Criticizes Disney/Marvel For Lack Of Winter Soldier Royalties

[DT Winslow]

And it’s weird so many people assume that I’m currently hiring.

[inisideguy]

You’re referring to Steve Englehart, then Keith Giffen and Abnett and Lanning. Yeah, I think it would be great for Marvel / Disney to reward all of these creators.

Folks, comics and in particular Marvel and DC have long histories of screwing over creators. It’s undeniable. See Jack Kirby for details. I’d love it if Marvel / Disney started to award and reward these creators more for concepts they’re making billions off of.

I think in most of these cases, there is no legal obligation. But it would be a good thing to do. I don’t expect it to happen. But no one is going to convince me that Marvel and DC Comics publishing model for decades was unethical and legally dubious at best. This isn’t some datk industry secret. This is well documented. Look at how DC treated Siegel and Shuster, or how Marvel treated Kirby.

So who deserves more, the guy who created Star Lord, or the guy who changed Star Lord, and is somewhat based on the Star Lord that is in the movies today. And I use that term loosely.

[Brian B]

None of this is foreign or alien to me and I find it odd you’d prescribe thoughts to a stranger asking you questions.

I do not think you have answered the question other than screaming the word bonuses and calling me names. I’ve worked for years in supervisory capacities, making sure every month and quarter that proper bonuses and rewards and awards are given out. I get bonuses but what you’re saying isn’t a bonus or stock option scenario.

You say that Disney should give a sum of money to a former contractor years later just because they can afford it.

Why should they? You and Jack continue to deflect away from this basic question. Why do I give bonuses to my team? They earned them. I’m more than happy to do it. They deserve more. What does Brubaker deserve and why does he deserve it?

Because Brubaker’s concepts are earning Disney hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. You’re looking at it the wrong way. Not “why.” “Why not” is how you should look at it.

Why not reward him above and beyond, given that his concepts have gone into use far beyond what Marvel was initially expecting him to do? Give him a 1099 with the bonus or award. There’s no legal problem with awarding him.

[Brian B]

So who deserves more, the guy who created Star Lord, or the guy who changed Star Lord, and is somewhat based on the Star Lord that is in the movies today. And I use that term loosely.

I said, award them ALL, Englehart, Giffen, and Abnett and Lanning.

[inisideguy]

Because Brubaker’s concepts are earning Disney hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. You’re looking at it the wrong way. Not “why.” “Why not” is how you should look at it.

Why not reward him above and beyond, given that his concepts have gone into use far beyond what Marvel was initially expecting him to do? Give him a 1099 with the bonus or award. There’s no legal problem with awarding him.

But again hasn't Disneys use of the character also increased interests in Brubakers original stories? And doesn't he benefit from the sales of those stories? And doesnt someone who reads those original Brubaker Winter Soldiers stories also maybe get interested in other stories from Brubaker?

[inisideguy]

I said, award them ALL, Englehart, Giffen, and Abnett and Lanning.

Who should get the most? The guy who created Star Lord that is nothing like the character that Disney uses. Or the guy who changed Star Lord and is something like the character Disney uses.

[DT Winslow]

Because Brubaker’s concepts are earning Disney hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. You’re looking at it the wrong way. Not “why.” “Why not” is how you should look at it.

Why not reward him above and beyond, given that his concepts have gone into use far beyond what Marvel was initially expecting him to do? Give him a 1099 with the bonus or award. There’s no legal problem with awarding him.

Excellent. I agree wholeheartedly. It’s all very vague. There’s no definition to it. No one is obligated, no one is owed, not by any legal standards, at least. In the summer of 2019, in lieu of an actual bonus, we were so freaking over budget, I was taken out to lunch by our regional leadership. A nice little reward to show appreciation. Always order the steak! We did make our quarterly numbers next time.

[Brian B]

But again hasn't Disneys use of the character also increased interests in Brubakers original stories? And doesn't he benefit from the sales of those stories? And doesnt someone who reads those original Brubaker Winter Soldiers stories also maybe get interested in other stories from Brubaker?

Who cares? All this maybe true. But award Brubaker MORE! Why not? Disney has the money. Share a pittance more with Brubaker.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I answered your questions. You choose to ignore. And yeah, you’re a scrooge. I personally have received bonuses and unexpected rewards. I know others who have as well. Some of those were for stock grants and other things that continue to generate financial rewards for years after that job was over. Just because that’s not your work experience doesn’t mean that’s not how capitalism works. In fact, at a good, ethical company, that’s exactly how it should work. That’s capitalism. That these concepts are so alien to your personal notions of capitalism tells me you are a scrooge and I would never, ever work for you. Heck, I’ve worked at companies I would consider to have been “bad” or unethical in some regard, and they STILL gave unexpected awards and bonuses that paid for years. Your definition and experience of capitalism is exactly what’s wrong with business and corporations these days. It’s like Roger said on Mad Men, “It’s ALWAYS about the money!”

The comics business is so thoroughly corrupt, and corrupting, that it's descended into a kind of feudalism. Among fans you have a mentality of serfdom, where they decide to pay due to their liege and they think anyone traducing the rights of the master is a serf who thinks he's a person or something.

The horrible part in the last two decades as Brubaker noted in the aftermath of the "Before Watchmen" fracas is now fans openly side with the corporations. The fandom have become mobsters and racketeers, no different from the henchmen who serve the bad guys, and it's like they're competing to become a henchman. Or you know they insult people for signing a bad contract as if a contract for a corporation is something written in blood and not contestable (which it is and all the time), or if the concept of being made to sign a s--ty contract is an experience they cannot grasp.

You say that Disney should give a sum of money to a former contractor years later just because they can afford it.

Exactly.

Why should they?

1) It's the right thing to do.
2) It engenders good will and fellow feeling, as well as company loyalty.
3) From a purely capitalistic and pragmatic perspective, a generous company and work environment makes it harder for unionization drives to happen. Generous and benevolent capitalism was important in First World nations in the aftermath of World War II for staving off communism after all.
4) It encourages and incentivizes creators and others to do more with licensed characters.

What does Brubaker deserve and why does he deserve it?

The exact percentage Brubaker deserves or what would be a fair or just price is for his lawyer and accountant to decide (they would obviously proffer a higher number in the hope of arriving at a figure they can compromise with).

Why does he deserve it? Again he wrote the first story and run where Bucky Barnes worked as a major emotional center and totally transformed him to make him function as a serialized character. That was something Brubaker did. He also added prestige to a title and character -- Captain America -- that was always seen as a mid-tier Marvel character and made his comics something that can deal with adult stuff and address 21st Century political ideas and themes. Brubaker brought Steve Rogers into the 21st Century in a big way and that provided a major inspiration and source for the MCU movies.

So yeah, he more than deserves it. He's earned it.

But again hasn't Disneys use of the character also increased interests in Brubakers original stories?And doesn't he benefit from the sales of those stories? And doesnt someone who reads those original Brubaker Winter Soldiers stories also maybe get interested in other stories from Brubaker?

A cascade of bad faith and wish-fulfillment here.

[Brian B]

Excellent. I agree wholeheartedly. It’s all very vague. There’s no definition to it. No one is obligated, no one is owed, not by any legal standards, at least. In the summer of 2019, in lieu of an actual bonus, we were so freaking over budget, I was taken out to lunch by our regional leadership. A nice little reward to show appreciation. Always order the steak! We did make our quarterly numbers next time.

I’m not Disney’d accounting department. A one-time stock grant would be a fine award to Brubaker. I’m sure Disney’s accounting department can make that work. They could do that for him. Why not? He’s still earning them money from work he did years ago. Why not award him?

[inisideguy]

Who cares? All this maybe true. But award Brubaker MORE! Why not? Disney has the money. Share a pittance more with Brubaker.

But didn't they just help each other out in a symbotic relationship? Brubaker wrote the story based on Bucky who someone else created. He made money on that story, so did Marvel. Then years later Disney took that concept, and made a lot of money, then people who saw winter soldier say wow I want to read the original story and other stories that Brubaker wrote. Bam they go to amazon hit buy and Brubaker gets some coin. Maybe Disney deserves a little of Brubakers money cause they promoted his work by making it into a movie. Thats free promotion.

[Brian B]

But didn't they just help each other out in a symbotic relationship? Brubaker wrote the story based on Bucky who someone else created. He made money on that story, so did Marvel. Then years later Disney took that concept, and made a lot of money, then people who saw winter soldier say wow I want to read the original story and other stories that Brubaker wrote. Bam they go to amazon hit buy and Brubaker gets some coin. Maybe Disney deserves a little of Brubakers money cause they promoted his work by making it into a movie. Thats free promotion.

Disney is already enjoying the promotion that Brubaker’s name gives them. They already have these monies you describe.

And folks, the creators of Bucky are well known. That’s Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, who Marvel screwed over for years.

[DT Winslow]

Disney is already enjoying the promotion that Brubaker’s name gives them. They already have these monies you describe.

And folks, the creators of Bucky are well known. That’s Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, who Marvel screwed over for years.

Not to be flippant, well, I mean, it’s me. But are they well known? Us folk know who they are. Does the general public? Do they care?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

But didn't they just help each other out in a symbotic relationship?

They did not.

Brubaker wrote the story based on Bucky who someone else created.

He wrote the story on a character who was widely seen as disposable and never all that interesting to start with. Bucky was a Robin-copy character after all, at the outset.

...then people who saw winter soldier say wow I want to read the original story...

Wow wish-fulfillment on full display here:
-- First of all, Winter Soldier was a successful story in comics years before the movie came out.
-- Only a sliver of the percentage who saw the Winter Soldier movie actually went out to read the comics.

...and other stories that Brubaker wrote.

A sliver of a sliver of a sliver. Not significant or relevant enough to form a sample.

Maybe Disney deserves a little of Brubakers money cause they promoted his work by making it into a movie.

If Disney were so above and so much more capable, then they could have created their own IP and stories and so on instead of just buying stuff outright.

So no, I'd say Disney doesn't deserve a single damn thing. Especially since the first Captain America which already featured a Brubaker-inspired Bucky set up to become WS, pre-existed their purchase of Marvel.

Thats free promotion.

It's not promotion. And if it's free for anyone, it's for Disney.

[inisideguy]

Disney is already enjoying the promotion that Brubaker’s name gives them. They already have these monies you describe.

And folks, the creators of Bucky are well known. That’s Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, who Marvel screwed over for years.

You are writing this like Brubaker is struggling in some way. A guy like Brubaker uses marvel as much as they use him. He writes stories for a big publisher, that promote his work so he can make more money on his own creator owned work. Brubaker took a marvel character and changed him. His story got massive acclaim for the largest comic publisher in the western world and made him more famous. That allowed him to use his name to make more money selling other books that he himself created.