Page 37 of 39 FirstFirst ... 2733343536373839 LastLast
Results 541 to 555 of 577
  1. #541
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Actually Hickman DID order that according to Leah.

    Mind you this was before Children of the Atom. So if that order was still in place-those kids are not mutants or they are mutants-who use to be someone else. We don't know everyone from Miles's Universe that came over.
    I'm not so sure about that, but we'll see. I guess I should amend my statement to include new X-characters in general. Antagonists get a pass, seeing as how pretty much every baddie from the past is now in Krakoa.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  2. #542
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,707

    Default

    They were general rules like don't create new mutants and every team will have individual characters nobody overlaps. We don't know hard or soft the rules are tho. We saw Hickman create new characters like someone mention but they weren't created to be anything more than new characters to fill space.

    The biggest problem isn't that they are too many characters the biggest problem is some X-fans think every character is viable but some character are just support/side characters. It is like reading Harry Potter and demanding that all the characters get books, sorry Neville Longbottom is a side character, Luna Lovegood is a side character. Draco Malfoy is a side character but there is enough stuff around him that he could be the main character in another book. The difficulty is the X-franchise is maybe the best franchise in comics at making C,D and F tier characters B-list characters. The thing you should be looking for characters who can become A-list and all-time great characters, they are who can sustain a franchise. X-fans swear their favorites would be viable with just more time and Wolverine getting time is keeping their favorites from shinning when reality the characters aren't that good and they should just move on from that idea when they don't blow up big.

  3. #543
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    They were general rules like don't create new mutants and every team will have individual characters nobody overlaps. We don't know hard or soft the rules are tho. We saw Hickman create new characters like someone mention but they weren't created to be anything more than new characters to fill space.

    The biggest problem isn't that they are too many characters the biggest problem is some X-fans think every character is viable but some character are just support/side characters. It is like reading Harry Potter and demanding that all the characters get books, sorry Neville Longbottom is a side character, Luna Lovegood is a side character. Draco Malfoy is a side character but there is enough stuff around him that he could be the main character in another book. The difficulty is the X-franchise is maybe the best franchise in comics at making C,D and F tier characters B-list characters. The thing you should be looking for characters who can become A-list and all-time great characters, they are who can sustain a franchise. X-fans swear their favorites would be viable with just more time and Wolverine getting time is keeping their favorites from shinning when reality the characters aren't that good and they should just move on from that idea when they don't blow up big.
    The problem is that the A-list never seems to expand or shift anymore, because the writers are only on board so briefly now and the next will just try to do their own thing often disregarding the build up attempts of the previous writers.

    Basicly they pick the safe established A-listers, throw in maybe an underused or overlooked character, if they aren't throwing their new creation in and then they are gone within 2-3 years if not less and the cycle repeats.

    Since the 2000s what new character was actualy thrown into the main team that stuck long enough to join the A-list of "save" characters to use?

    Of the 90's we at least have Bishop and Gambit. But i'm reading the members list of the 2000's and 2010's and it's just a constant in and out of characters never making the jump anymore.

    It's kind of difficult to tell anymore when a character really isn't suited to "blow up big" and when it was just the chaotic nature of the comics the past 20 years that sabotaged any chance for them.

    With this, it's no wonder that the readership seems to have largely turned towards a blind rejection of any new or different characters or splintered into vocal fans of various b- to d-listers.

    Though, with that being said. There is a reason i wasn't voting for Marrow in this fan election despite her being one of my favorits. She was kicked off the team 20 years ago by Claremont, after 3 years with lacking character development, never mentioned or shown again in a core book (until Rosenbergs Uncanny but the less said about that the better) since, which also means no writer ever knew her or felt she was important enough to be brought up, meaning she is two decades behind in core book development or relevance.

    It wasn't much better in satelite titles either. First the mediocre Weapon X series, then only singular appearances for years, followed by the short run of Si Spurrier's X-force (which didn't do her character much good, albeit she got her powers back) and then singular appearances again.

    And now she would suddently return on the team, her disappearance 20 years ago likely never explained, filling a spot on a team that allready has X-23 on it and supposed to be THE X-men team of the comming years (or at least months)?
    That felt too much of a leap to work right.

    I still think she could make a good B-lister, if she finaly gets some much needed character development and some stock with readers via good B-list title roles (or some good mini series). But again she is decades behind that in my opinion.

  4. #544
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    They were general rules like don't create new mutants and every team will have individual characters nobody overlaps. We don't know hard or soft the rules are tho. We saw Hickman create new characters like someone mention but they weren't created to be anything more than new characters to fill space.

    The biggest problem isn't that they are too many characters the biggest problem is some X-fans think every character is viable but some character are just support/side characters. It is like reading Harry Potter and demanding that all the characters get books, sorry Neville Longbottom is a side character, Luna Lovegood is a side character. Draco Malfoy is a side character but there is enough stuff around him that he could be the main character in another book. The difficulty is the X-franchise is maybe the best franchise in comics at making C,D and F tier characters B-list characters. The thing you should be looking for characters who can become A-list and all-time great characters, they are who can sustain a franchise. X-fans swear their favorites would be viable with just more time and Wolverine getting time is keeping their favorites from shinning when reality the characters aren't that good and they should just move on from that idea when they don't blow up big.
    Funny, I think the same about the HP stuff.

    I think it's simple logic - the fewer characters, the more opportunities to flesh out the C and D-listers until they become B or even in some cases A-list. If Hickman just needs filler characters he can use anyone of the currently existing ones, and they can even die because death is meaningless.

    Making more characters just means that when Hickman steps away and his creations are put in a box there will be fans complaining about their absence.

    I agree about understanding that faves don't always get to be A-list.
    Last edited by Hizashi; 04-21-2021 at 09:16 PM.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  5. #545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    The problem is that the A-list never seems to expand or shift anymore, because the writers are only on board so briefly now and the next will just try to do their own thing often disregarding the build up attempts of the previous writers.

    Basicly they pick the safe established A-listers, throw in maybe an underused or overlooked character, if they aren't throwing their new creation in and then they are gone within 2-3 years if not less and the cycle repeats.

    Since the 2000s what new character was actualy thrown into the main team that stuck long enough to join the A-list of "save" characters to use?

    Of the 90's we at least have Bishop and Gambit. But i'm reading the members list of the 2000's and 2010's and it's just a constant in and out of characters never making the jump anymore.

    It's kind of difficult to tell anymore when a character really isn't suited to "blow up big" and when it was just the chaotic nature of the comics the past 20 years that sabotaged any chance for them.

    With this, it's no wonder that the readership seems to have largely turned towards a blind rejection of any new or different characters or splintered into vocal fans of various b- to d-listers.

    Though, with that being said. There is a reason i wasn't voting for Marrow in this fan election despite her being one of my favorits. She was kicked off the team 20 years ago by Claremont, after 3 years with lacking character development, never mentioned or shown again in a core book (until Rosenbergs Uncanny but the less said about that the better) since, which also means no writer ever knew her or felt she was important enough to be brought up, meaning she is two decades behind in core book development or relevance.

    It wasn't much better in satelite titles either. First the mediocre Weapon X series, then only singular appearances for years, followed by the short run of Si Spurrier's X-force (which didn't do her character much good, albeit she got her powers back) and then singular appearances again.

    And now she would suddently return on the team, her disappearance 20 years ago likely never explained, filling a spot on a team that allready has X-23 on it and supposed to be THE X-men team of the comming years (or at least months)?
    That felt too much of a leap to work right.

    I still think she could make a good B-lister, if she finaly gets some much needed character development and some stock with readers via good B-list title roles (or some good mini series). But again she is decades behind that in my opinion.
    I don't know how often and to what extent this is a problem for other characters, but with Polaris, I've noticed different writers repeatedly ignore past development she's had and treat her like she's a completely blank slate they can do absolutely anything to.

    To a limited extent, this implies awareness that past treatment of her has been overall bad. But the problem is that they simultaneously also seem to think there's absolutely nothing to take from her past except an extremely broad cliff notes of what they're most aware of ("she dated Havok, she was on X-Factor, Magneto's her dad"), and as such they can act like they're the first ones to ever write her and no development exists before them. What they then put out ends up being either a re-tread of what previous writers have already done, or (far more often) a sharp divergence that's completely incompatible with her past development.

    And when I say re-tread, I don't mean a writer writing Lorna with the same personality or doing the same sort of actions as a past writer. I mean a writer resetting her to tropes and depictions from decades ago and then giving her "progress" that another writer already provided. When this is done, I get the impression their goal is trying to get readers thinking "This character used to really suck but then this writer came along and made her awesome." Which ends up coming off like the writer insultingly thinks the character had nothing of worth to her name deserving of fandom or appreciation until they deigned to inject their creative genius into her. It's also a bad precedent that encourages future writers to behave the same way and ignore anything they do with her today.

    This is, of course, all speaking historically. I think Lorna is in a good position for positive change after getting voted onto the new X-Men team and I hope this is the start of good things for her.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  6. #546
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,949

    Default

    The shortness of current runs, the large number of titles, and the relative low sales compared to previous eras has meant runs usually only give new characters interacting with the core cast a very short period of time to either break out or not. To have a break out moment that lasts awhile pretty much requires both a critically acclaimed run and a character who really adds something very obvious to the core cast dynamic. If these conditions aren't met then the X-Men goes back to recycling the same names from iconic runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I'm very excited for this. Probably my favorite lineup in awhile. Particularly happy to see Lorna elevated to the big leagues.

    Disappointed that it's only temporary though. A year isn't very long, and I'm worried it won't allow Duggan to dig as deep as I'd like him to. A lot of questions as to how all of this will play out. Will everyone leave the team outside of Scott and Jean? Will some stay? Hopefully we'll find out more about how all of this will work soon.
    With Lorna we will know very quickly as in the first few months if the title has found a dynamic that actually works between her and the X-Men and leaves fans and creators thirsting for more. If runs don't hit the ground running and define why she is a certain place and what she represents right off the bat its already too late, because its not the 80s or 90s. Writers aren't given anything close to Claremont length runs to get around to it.

    And when I say re-tread, I don't mean a writer writing Lorna with the same personality or doing the same sort of actions as a past writer. I mean a writer resetting her to tropes and depictions from decades ago and then giving her "progress" that another writer already provided.
    Until she has an actual core motivational goal bigger then herself given the nature of comics as a medium recycling nostalgia or reliving past pathos a different way will continue to be the name of the game for the character. The failure of Lorna's story since Decimation is that the character hasn't had a overarching motivation of theme. She has been broadly a generic female character getting bounced around from book to book.

    Rogue can get away with being broadly a heroine with a little edge and a little attitude with a complicated connection to big dog Mags, but no theme or deep driving force. They have kept trying that core theme with Lorna to the same failed outcome.
    Last edited by jmc247; 04-22-2021 at 06:59 AM.

  7. #547
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    1,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    According to some people, Scott merely being on the same panel as Jean is proof she is being denigrated.
    Lol, let em know! You know who's being denigrated though? Exodus! Like after Way of X, I see no hope ...a powerhouse becoming a kindergarten scout master? Atrocious!
    Last edited by Rev9; 04-22-2021 at 06:57 AM.

  8. #548
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I don't know how often and to what extent this is a problem for other characters, but with Polaris, I've noticed different writers repeatedly ignore past development she's had and treat her like she's a completely blank slate they can do absolutely anything to.
    Oh it's definitely a problem across the board. I especially feel for the New X-Men characters who consistently held down a book from 2003-2008 and are now perpetually stuck as background or the designated "rookie" (if they're lucky).

    I think part of the problem is the medium. Writers often think of whatever story they want to tell in the moment without looking at the trajectory that the character has been on. Some of the current writers are mining continuity in interesting ways, but it's definitely a tough act to balance.

  9. #549
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Oh it's definitely a problem across the board. I especially feel for the New X-Men characters who consistently held down a book from 2003-2008 and are now perpetually stuck as background or the designated "rookie" (if they're lucky).

    I think part of the problem is the medium. Writers often think of whatever story they want to tell in the moment without looking at the trajectory that the character has been on. Some of the current writers are mining continuity in interesting ways, but it's definitely a tough act to balance.
    This begs the question: where is editorial? Shouldn't they be concerned with taking stock of continuity and character history and coordinating with writers so that they tell good stories that keeps characters in their narrative trajectories?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  10. #550
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    22,579

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    This begs the question: where is editorial? Shouldn't they be concerned with taking stock of continuity and character history and coordinating with writers so that they tell good stories that keeps characters in their narrative trajectories?
    Editorial today seems more focused on shaping the direction of the X-line and ensuring the books align with each other and less focused on them fitting in with continuity from the past

  11. #551
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Editorial today seems more focused on shaping the direction of the X-line and ensuring the books align with each other and less focused on them fitting in with continuity from the past
    Okay, but then:

    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #552
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    13,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Editorial today seems more focused on shaping the direction of the X-line and ensuring the books align with each other and less focused on them fitting in with continuity from the past
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  13. #553
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    2,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Editorial today seems more focused on shaping the direction of the X-line and ensuring the books align with each other and less focused on them fitting in with continuity from the past
    Okay, but then:

    Why indeed?

    Everyone would be happy: some changes and not an eternal status-quo… but with characters who are in-character… I guess it requires work and not everyone is like Mr Busiek:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    I read as much as I reasonably can, and if that can be everything, great.

  14. #554
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Why indeed?

    Everyone would be happy: some changes and not an eternal status-quo… but with characters who are in-character… I guess it requires work and not everyone is like Mr Busiek:
    Marvel has large editorial teams don't they? There needs to be more coordination and more attention paid to continuity.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  15. #555

    Default

    The irony is that they would have much better stories if they did better by continuity. Past work builds on future work. TV shows don't start every season by keeping the exact same setting and characters but resetting all the characters' development except for a couple highlights, even when a season was bad.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •