And the Official New Lineup of the new X-Men book Is:

[Brian B]

There’s a lot of great conversations happening in this thread. None of us can complain that Hickman’s run has been boring. I love the diversity of opinion throughout this thread, from opinion on the story to the sales and business implications.

Hickman wasted almost more than half of his run to do other writers laundry work. Tini Howard, Duggan or even Spurrier. It's is rather sad really bc Duggan seized Hicks run with the relaunch. Is he actually the Head of X?

This is an interesting question. Is Duggan Head of X? I don’t think so.

He’s (Hickman’s) definitely the head of x still, he just didn’t want to be bothered writing a character focused book most likely.

That’s an explanation for sure.

I assume Hickman is still Head of X, but it’s interesting that what’s being sold as the new flagship title is not being written by the head writer. I keep reading speculation that Hickman will write Uncanny X-Men, and Marvel has shown us that in September they are launching a new Hickman X title.

I think what we’re seeing are gimmicks, a “relaunch” within the relaunch to goose sales, following disappointing sales (to Marvel, not actually bad sales on most X titles as measured and valued industry wide).

I’m still sticking with Hickman’s X plans for the time being. No one can say Hickman’s run has been boring. To me, it’s been way more interesting than his Avengers and Secret Wars, even though I don’t agree with the radical change in Xavier’s goals and depictions of some characters.

Think we could at least get the X-Men believing in living in peace with humans again, or at least any explanation as to why they all suddenly decided to bail on it?

This is my biggest complaint, too. I hope Hickman has something up his sleeve coming to address this.

You mean apart from the multiple Holocausts in less than 20 years (in MU time), when given the alternative of a post-scarcity society with free resurrections?

I think the mutant genocides are such a weird point Hickman has focused on for mutant nationhood.

It’s not Hickman’s fault, but instead previous writers’ fault.

The slaughter at Genosha was caused by Xavier’s evil, unborn twin, not by oppressive humans.

The “no more mutants” — which depowered mutants, it was not a genocide — was caused by Scarlet Witch, a mutant, Magneto’s daughter.

(Don’t give me that crud about how she’s not a mutant or Magneto’s daughter. We’re a retcon away from her being a mutant and a reveal away to show Magneto is her dad.)

Heck, Omega WAS an X-man (X-woman), not just a Sentinel.

Sentinels, which Hickman is continuing the depiction of Sentinels as transhumanist AI and an intelligent enemy unto themselves, have been repeatedly created and run by mutantkind, from Larry Trask to Krakoan Quiet Council member Robert Shaw.

When closely examined, the idea that mutants need Krakoa to defend from human genocides kinda falls apart.

I think Hickman should have concentrated on general prejudice against mutants rather than holding up House of M events and the Genoshan genocide as reasons to found Krakoa.

Hopefully that's the case. If this is the X-Men finally remembering their ideals that would be an excellent change of pace. Otherwise it'd be like if Superior Spider-Man were permanent.

I hope this is the case, too.

Sunfire? Really? I'm surprised he's even involved in the whole Krakoa thing. His homeland of Japan always seemed to be his first and only love.

Interesting point. You’re 110% right.

All along the X-Men, with those awful toxic ideas of coexistence and peace, were just waiting for a genius savant like Hickman to come along and introduce the thing the X-Men really needed: becoming Nationalists.

This is the nut of the problem with Hickman’s run. The embrace of Krakoan nationalism, the bizarre methods of reproduction by the mutant nation, Krakoa’s embrace of Hellish demons and mutant terrorists, and governance by would-be conquerors of mankind do not make me think of the Krakoans and X-Men as good guys at all. The future they offer is no better than that offered by Orchis, Omega, the Librarian, Nimrod the Lesser, Nimrod the Greater and the Titans controlling the Phalanx and Technarchy.

It’s a real problem with Hickman’s run so far and I hope he has some surprises in store.

[jmc247]

The slaughter at Genosha was caused by Xavier’s evil, unborn twin, not by oppressive humans.

Is it really that simple?

She didn’t make the Sentinels. She didn't design them and ready them for use.

[Hizashi]

Is it really that simple?

She didn’t make the Sentinels. She didn't design them and ready them for use.

She would've found something else, and what she used was a decommissioned/defunct Master Mold anyways (if I remember correctly), so it's not like she highjacked readily available Sentinels that humanity was itching to use. She was the instigator and that can't be disputed.

Brian B is on point.

[Gray Lensman]

She would've found something else, and what she used was a decommissioned/defunct Master Mold anyways (if I remember correctly), so it's not like she highjacked readily available Sentinels that humanity was itching to use. She was the instigator and that can't be disputed.

Brian B is on point.

I will note that the general population of mutants out there probably doesn't get the info about "Charles Xavier's Secret Sister, who happens to be EVIL" and probably knows little more than "Sentinels Did It". Plus this doesn't get into the other genocides like The Inhuman's free-floating perma-clouds of anti-mutant Zyklon B, and how the world was so eager to embrace Cyclops as "Mutant Hitler" when he was seen as stopping one of them. Without even getting into the fact that it wasn't even him, labelling someone as a new Hitler for SLOWING THE PACE OF A GENOCIDE paints a picture of a planet that has already bought into the othering of mutants wholesale.

On a related note, If I never have to see another "Secret Sibling who no one ever knew existed until just now" story it will still be several lifetimes too soon.

[Hizashi]

I will note that the general population of mutants out there probably doesn't get the info about "Charles Xavier's Secret Sister, who happens to be EVIL" and probably knows little more than "Sentinels Did It". Plus this doesn't get into the other genocides like The Inhuman's free-floating perma-clouds of anti-mutant Zyklon B, and how the world was so eager to embrace Cyclops as "Mutant Hitler" when he was seen as stopping one of them. Without even getting into the fact that it wasn't even him, labelling someone as a new Hitler for SLOWING THE PACE OF A GENOCIDE paints a picture of a planet that has already bought into the othering of mutants wholesale.

On a related note, If I never have to see another "Secret Sibling who no one ever knew existed until just now" story it will still be several lifetimes too soon.

Good points, I hadn't thought of that. Still, you'd think the X-Men would try to set the record straight as much as possible.

[salarta]

She would've found something else, and what she used was a decommissioned/defunct Master Mold anyways (if I remember correctly), so it's not like she highjacked readily available Sentinels that humanity was itching to use. She was the instigator and that can't be disputed.

Brian B is on point.

Whether or not Cassandra Nova would have found something else is kind of irrelevant, because the fact remains that she used Sentinels which were the product of humans and created for the specific purpose of suppressing and killing mutants.

If someone hacked into the U.S. nuclear arsenal and nuked a country, we wouldn't shrug and say "Oh well, they would've hacked into some other country's nukes to do it anyway." It would be a massive scandal and indictment against the United States. On a smaller modern and proven scale, we've seen how people respond to Twitter, Facebook, and other social media platforms when they host people and content that outright promote violence and disinformation. We don't think "Oh well, they'll just set up shop somewhere else anyway, we'll just have to put up with it here." We demand those social media companies do something about it, and hold it against them if they don't.

Humans didn't look at Genosha and send the Sentinels to do it themselves, but they provided the means with something specifically designed to do exactly what it did. Commit an act of genocide if humans wished for one.

[Brian B]

I will note that the general population of mutants out there probably doesn't get the info about "Charles Xavier's Secret Sister, who happens to be EVIL" and probably knows little more than "Sentinels Did It". Plus this doesn't get into the other genocides like The Inhuman's free-floating perma-clouds of anti-mutant Zyklon B, and how the world was so eager to embrace Cyclops as "Mutant Hitler" when he was seen as stopping one of them. Without even getting into the fact that it wasn't even him, labelling someone as a new Hitler for SLOWING THE PACE OF A GENOCIDE paints a picture of a planet that has already bought into the othering of mutants wholesale.

On a related note, If I never have to see another "Secret Sibling who no one ever knew existed until just now" story it will still be several lifetimes too soon.

The Inhumans are not representative of humans, and the Terrigen Mists being a danger to mutants was stopped by the ruling family — Medusa — as soon as it became known.

As for the rest of mutantkind throughout the world not knowing it was Charles Xavier’s evil twin who caused the Genoshan genocide and not humankind, I don’t know that’s true. I assumed the other mutants knew that was the case. If they don’t know that, that’s just another strike against Xavier and another argument against Krakoan nationalism and separatism. If Xavier’s evil twin being behind the mutant genocide is a secret, that would be a scandal of epic proportions in the Krakoan government.

[jwatson]

The Inhumans are not representative of humans, and the Terrigen Mists being a danger to mutants was stopped by the ruling family — Medusa — as soon as it became known.

As for the rest of mutantkind throughout the world not knowing it was Charles Xavier’s evil twin who caused the Genoshan genocide and not humankind, I don’t know that’s true. I assumed the other mutants knew that was the case. If they don’t know that, that’s just another strike against Xavier and another argument against Krakoan nationalism and separatism. If Xavier’s evil twin being behind the mutant genocide is a secret, that would be a scandal of epic proportions in the Krakoan government.

This is a flat out false statement. Beast was working with the inhumans at the time because they knew it was dangerous to mutants. It wasn't until over a year later Medusa conceded after Emma pushed things to a boiling point.

As a matter of fact the first Uncann Inhumans the other arc was the casino story, but i could be getting the two books mixed up arc was them being wiped from reality by kang killing inhumans of the past and beast saved them by creating a temporal displacer so they could go back and save them. I remember thinking "Damn beast, that solves the terrigen problem." lol

[Hizashi]

The Inhumans are not representative of humans, and the Terrigen Mists being a danger to mutants was stopped by the ruling family — Medusa — as soon as it became known.

As for the rest of mutantkind throughout the world not knowing it was Charles Xavier’s evil twin who caused the Genoshan genocide and not humankind, I don’t know that’s true. I assumed the other mutants knew that was the case. If they don’t know that, that’s just another strike against Xavier and another argument against Krakoan nationalism and separatism. If Xavier’s evil twin being behind the mutant genocide is a secret, that would be a scandal of epic proportions in the Krakoan government.

Gonna have to disagree here bud, jwatson is right.

[Brian B]

Whether or not Cassandra Nova would have found something else is kind of irrelevant, because the fact remains that she used Sentinels which were the product of humans and created for the specific purpose of suppressing and killing mutants...

Humans didn't look at Genosha and send the Sentinels to do it themselves, but they provided the means with something specifically designed to do exactly what it did. Commit an act of genocide if humans wished for one.

As I recall, a human did create Sentinels, but then his mutant kids took over the building and control of the Sentinels. Based on known timelines at Marvel, the Master Mold that Casandra Nova used would likely have been created by Larry Trask, a mutant. Also, other mutants including Robert Shaw took over the building and running of Sentinels. The Sentinels really aren’t just humans’ fault. Heck, Omega was an X-man (woman)!

[BroHomo]

She would've found something else, and what she used was a decommissioned/defunct Master Mold anyways (if I remember correctly), so it's not like she highjacked readily available Sentinels that humanity was itching to use. She was the instigator and that can't be disputed.

Brian B is on point.

I mean considering it was goosestepping as soon as some trask came a'talking Id disagree

The Inhumans are not representative of humans, and the Terrigen Mists being a danger to mutants was stopped by the ruling family — Medusa — as soon as it became known.

As for the rest of mutantkind throughout the world not knowing it was Charles Xavier’s evil twin who caused the Genoshan genocide and not humankind, I don’t know that’s true. I assumed the other mutants knew that was the case. If they don’t know that, that’s just another strike against Xavier and another argument against Krakoan nationalism and separatism. If Xavier’s evil twin being behind the mutant genocide is a secret, that would be a scandal of epic proportions in the Krakoan government.

I hope you're enjoying the current run buddy!

As I recall, a human did create Sentinels, but then his mutant kids took over the building and control of the Sentinels. Based on known timelines at Marvel, the Master Mold that Casandra Nova used would likely have been created by Larry Trask, a mutant. Also, other mutants including Robert Shaw took over the building and running of Sentinels. The Sentinels really aren’t just humans’ fault. Heck, Omega was an X-man (woman)!

oh YEAH you right. Everything is really the X-Men's fault lol

[Brian B]

Gonna have to disagree here bud, jwatson is right.

So, Xavier’s evil twin didn’t cause the Gensohan genocide? Weird, I have the book it happened in, and it sure looks like Casandra Nova did it.

[BroHomo]

So, Xavier’s evil twin didn’t cause the Gensohan genocide? Weird, I have the book it happened in, and it sure looks like Casandra Nova did it.

Well the only way to have activated the Sentinels was Trask(Human) DNA
right?

[Rang10]

Whether or not Cassandra Nova would have found something else is kind of irrelevant, because the fact remains that she used Sentinels which were the product of humans and created for the specific purpose of suppressing and killing mutants.

If someone hacked into the U.S. nuclear arsenal and nuked a country, we wouldn't shrug and say "Oh well, they would've hacked into some other country's nukes to do it anyway." It would be a massive scandal and indictment against the United States. On a smaller modern and proven scale, we've seen how people respond to Twitter, Facebook, and other social media platforms when they host people and content that outright promote violence and disinformation. We don't think "Oh well, they'll just set up shop somewhere else anyway, we'll just have to put up with it here." We demand those social media companies do something about it, and hold it against them if they don't.

Humans didn't look at Genosha and send the Sentinels to do it themselves, but they provided the means with something specifically designed to do exactly what it did. Commit an act of genocide if humans wished for one.

Very few humans did that. They were abandoned and Cassandra used them to genocide.

Having guns and not murdering someone isn't a crime in some countries. This is the same situation, if someone stole them and commit a crime it is not the owner's fault.

[Hizashi]

So, Xavier’s evil twin didn’t cause the Gensohan genocide? Weird, I have the book it happened in, and it sure looks like Casandra Nova did it.

No, I meant about Medusa stopping the Terrigen Crisis as soon as she knew it was killing mutants, that's just not true. Otherwise I'm on the same page with you.