It's Time for 'The Death & Return of Superman' to be Retold

[StrikeJP]

I can hear some of the replies now, "We don't need to retread that story AGAIN" or "It's a classic and fine the way it is." So before I'm cast out for hypocrisy, hear me out.

I think the Death of Superman has become a story that's nearly as important as his origin. It introduces so many classic concepts/characters with Doomsday, Kon-El, Steel, Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, etc. And while it's the story that got me into Superman and I still love it to this day... it's starting to feel dated.

If you hand someone a copy, you have to explain why Supergirl gets punched into a blob, why Lex is a Luthor Jr with red hair and an Australian accent, why Cyborg Superman is a Reed Richards reject, the D-list JLA, etc. I could go on. And for some people, part of the fun is going back to the 90's era Superman and watching that whole epic unfold thanks to the tight-nit continuity. I know, I was one of those kids that loved being able to see Superman's adventures play out every week. But, as a self-contained story, it isn't holding up like it used to.

So what would I suggest DC do? Retell it. They recently released a Black Label book called "Harleen" that retells the origin of Harley Quinn (even though we already have the excellent "Mad Love"). I think that would be the way to go. Retell in under the Black/Digital label. Then people can pick which one they'd like to read, the old-school original or a self-contained modernization. It can be in continuity only if the reader wants it to.

But they have to make sure the retelling hits all the major beats of the original without completely rewriting it. They just need to make it more self-contained. Something similar to the recent animated movie (without all the Darkseid nonsense).

If I had my way, I'd make it a 90's love-letter and tie in the engagement to Lois and maybe at the end of the story have them get married. Then you could have a solid before/after point in Superman's life. Any writer that want's to tell a classic Superman story before Lois knew Superman was Clark, can place it before this story. And everyone else can tell more modern tales with Lois and Clark married and their son Jon (who also needs a retelling of his origin because that's another continuity mess... maybe for another day).

So what do you all say? Am I crazy? Do you agree? If you do, what would be your take on a new Death & Return?

[Sacred Knight]

Gotta disagree, personally. I think the mythos would be better served moving on from it more than DC has ever allowed it to, honestly. Its not so much about me feeling its a classic that shouldn't be touched, its just more I think it needs to be less a point of emphasis in his history. Hell I think the character would be just fine if not benefit if it were removed wholesale from ever happening. It was a huge deal to the industry at the time via some lightning in a bottle circumstances, but that was a long time ago and it really doesn't resonate as much anymore. The animated take recently was decent but not spectacular, and it finally making it to film after all these decades landed with a huge thud. The novelty has passed, imo.

[StrikeJP]

Hoo-boy. I knew this topic would be unpopular. There's a lot to tackle here (and defend myself, lol) so if I don't get to everyone's point, sorry.

Gotta disagree, personally. I think the mythos would be better served moving on from it more than DC has ever allowed it to, honestly. Its not so much about me feeling its a classic that shouldn't be touched, its just more I think it needs to be less a point of emphasis in his history. Hell I think the character would be just fine if not benefit if it were removed wholesale from ever happening. It was a huge deal to the industry at the time via some lightning in a bottle circumstances, but that was a long time ago and it really doesn't resonate as much anymore. The animated take recently was decent but not spectacular, and it finally making it to film after all these decades landed with a huge thud. The novelty has passed, imo.

I'm totally ok with DC not focusing on this story anymore, I get where you're coming from. But I wouldn't use Batman V. Superman as a good example of the story being done right. I just feel like this story introduces a lot of important character/concepts that are too important for the story to be removed wholesale. Which brings me to this point:

I'll be honest, it wouldn't break my heart if they just got rid of it altogether. It's not really that important in terms of his history. It's not necessary to get either Conner or Steel. Both work fine without it. The books themselves are incredibly dated and most of it isn't canon anymore anyway. He's had how many origin reboots now but this outdated story gets to stay? If I was doing my collection over again, I'd probably just skip it. Doomsday's also kind of a one trick pony. He can't really be used for anything else other than "the monster that killed Superman". I'd rather just get rid of it. I don't consider it one of the "big moments" in Superman's life. The fact that it caught on was just a fluke. I loved Batman Year One way more and if that doesn't get to stay because it's outdated, there's no reason this continuity heavy story that really doesn't contribute anything to his canon that can't be obtained otherwise should get to stay.

Sure, Conner and Steel can be introduced in other ways. But I find their introductions way more interesting when tied to the Death. Conner was created to fill the void that Superman left. Steel was inspired and felt like he had to make up for the loss of Superman somehow. Otherwise, without the death Steel just becomes some random guy who becomes a superhero because he likes Superman a lot.

I won't disagree with Doomsday being a one-trick pony, but I have a soft spot for the big lug as long as he's used sparingly. Probably my nostalgia speaking. And while were on it, you won't get a disagreement about Batman Year One from me, I love that story. And I don't think it's even that outdated, I think it holds up because it's not bogged down by continuity and it very self-contained. That's what I want for the Death & Return.

Unfortunately the ship for a straight up retelling sailed maybe two times already back-to-back. That was the New 52 and Earth One universes.

I don't really see much merit in just doing a self contained Death of Superman story to just...be. All Star Superman did that, and it has the final word on the idea.
________

That said, I think there's a lot of room to retroactively make that story better in the present. That's the power of recontextualization. Moore's Marvelman, and large portions of Morrison's career are them looking at older stories and digging back into those ideas with a clever modern eye to uncover a new dimension to the work that better informs the present. I don't need to see Death of Superman retold. But I would like to see it reunderstood, and, for me at least, made to not suck.

I don't know that there was ever a ship. I think if I brought this topic up during the New52 it would be met with the same reluctance. That being said, I'd be curious to hear your take on how you'd recontextualize the Death & Return in a way that would make it interesting for you.

How old are you guys that dont care for this story anyway?

I actually was there and at a age where I could totally understand and enjoy this story.

This was the biggest thing that has ever happened in comics, nothing else was close, in comics and absolutely no where close outside of comics.this was the pinnacle of the comic industries,the only thing bigger than this for the comic industry was the movie explosion for marvel and dc, but still not big inside comics

Yep, there was nothing bigger than this story. Especially if you were around an age where you could appreciate it. That's why I think it's a shame a lot of people would rather throw this story out than improve on it. For better or for worse, this story was/is important to Superman.

I've seen a few comments in this thread that dumb it down to "I don't want to see Superman and Doomsday beat each other to death again." But the story is so much more than that. The Doomsday fight is a means to an end. Funeral for a Friend is very touching and can show the importance of Superman. The Reign of the Superman was a fun over the top superhero blockbuster.

We need to tell other stories with the guy, and I'm not a fan of rehashing old stories just to update them. Hell, that's kind of disrespectful to the creators of the original work.

That's fair. But no disrespect meant to the creators. I love their work so much, that I think putting this story through a modern lens, could be intriguing if told right.

I think there is value in retelling stories for a modern audience with current storytelling and art. That is a significant barrier to a lot of people beyond the diehard fanbase that has read everything regardless. The Death and Return animated movie was great though and probably serves that goal for a bit.

This is where I'm coming from. But I also see where a lot of you guys are coming from, so maybe at the end of the day, I'd like a story that retells the Death & Return through flashbacks and 3rd person narration. Something like "Day of Doom" meets "For All Seasons" but way more fleshed out in a way that helps modernize and self-contain the story.

[Robanker]

The only way to do this without outright saying it's a rehash is for it to take place in an adaption, its own pocket continuity (like Earth One Superman), or as a black label project chronicling his life in which it'd obviously be a sequence (which is the approach I personally took for fun).

But you can't redo it mainline without coming across as "well we **** the bed last time, but we know it'll rule this time!"

Just look at the DTVs Superman: Doomsday and Death of Superman. Most agree Doomsday was subpar, but it was the first one out the gate so it sold gangbusters. Most tend to agree DoS is significantly better and it overwrites that one in most people's mind. But if they were to redo Under the Red Hood? People would be outraged because it's good!

Redoing a project of that scale is an admission that the old one isn't good enough, and those creators are still around. They probably wouldn't care if they got more than a special thanks whenever their work got adapted but to never make money off things like Doomsday/DoS/BvS and then have their work redone is a bridge too far if I'm being honest.

[DochaDocha]

To put it politely, no thanks.

I don't like Jon Kent, but for all the complaints I have on DC's insistence on pushing this character, at least I can say it's not a repetitive take on Superman. I may not see it that way, but it's progressing the character in a clear direction. Redoing Death of Superman is just pushing Superman one step closer to irrelevance.

[Sacred Knight]

Well, its progressing a character, just not Superman. At the very least I give Death & Return that over the current trainwreck. Hell if they wanted to use a retelling of D&R as a return to prominence idea for Superman and put him back where belongs in terms of focus, I'd have to take that deal in a heartbeat regardless of my feelings on it, as my current negative feelings of the current direction vastly outweigh that of Death. But that spitballing aside, I think its a done storyline.

[DochaDocha]

Oh, some time in my life I enjoyed the heck out of D&R. I just don't enjoy it anymore because it keeps getting rehashed among Superman's depressing parallel to MLB and its Three True Outcomes. Giving Superman a kid had the exact problem I feared, and that was taking attention away from Superman and dropping it on his uninteresting (to me; just putting the standard opinion disclaimer out there to help prevent sidetracking of the thread) progeny, but one could optimistically spin that to me as part of Superman's story arc, e.g. his life now revolves around his kid and so therefore so do the stories (another disclaimer: I don't buy it).

EDIT: You could say if I wanted to retain my right to bemoan the repetitiveness of killing off Superman, I feel obligated to at least acknowledge writing about his kid, which I generally don't like, at least doesn't have that same problem.

[Sacred Knight]

Oh, some time in my life I enjoyed the heck out of D&R. I just don't enjoy it anymore because it keeps getting rehashed among Superman's depressing parallel to MLB and its Three True Outcomes.

Oh I loved it too, don't get me wrong. My god, one of my most cherished fandom based memories is reading that for the first time. I still love it simply on the grounds of an old story. I just started to get bothered by the concept on the same grounds as yourself over the passage of time.

[Vordan]

DC is already folding stuff from their animated adaptions such as Red X wholesale into their comics, just make the animated Death & Reign two-parter “canon” as an update imo. Otherwise I’m not really sure if there would be any interest, Harleen was one of multiple Harley origin/OGN books DC has been doing. I’d rather get any other type of Superman stories besides seeing Doomsday and Clark beat each other to death again.

[Superlad93]

Unfortunately the ship for a straight up retelling sailed maybe two times already back-to-back. That was the New 52 and Earth One universes.

I don't really see much merit in just doing a self contained Death of Superman story to just...be. All Star Superman did that, and it has the final word on the idea.
________

That said, I think there's a lot of room to retroactively make that story better in the present. That's the power of recontextualization. Moore's Marvelman, and large portions of Morrison's career are them looking at older stories and digging back into those ideas with a clever modern eye to uncover a new dimension to the work that better informs the present. I don't need to see Death of Superman retold. But I would like to see it reunderstood, and, for me at least, made to not suck.

[Kuwagaton]

It's the story of the 90s in many senses of the phrase. Which means it's diminished outside of that context even by just a little. The adaptations are so on the surface that it's no wonder people don't care much... unfortunately, that also means that people who don't care are even less interested in an extended cut full of obscure or dated references.

Superman is easily the king of the comic backlog, but love for classic comics is a curse really. Outside of the X-Men fans who very largely understand that you can't pass go without 80s Claremont, people just don't get pre 2000 comics like that. Mutant Massacre reprints are going for triple the price two years after the omnibus release, Superman comics don't see that even when DC bothers to reprint. Bates for one wrote at least as many stories for this franchise, but what can you say?

For the Death and Return story, I guess it has to be enough that everyone knows it has its place in the mythos.

large portions of Morrison's career are them looking at older stories and digging back into those ideas

Well, with Death in particular this is exactly how I'd describe Batman RIP. Or Death of Captain America by Brubaker, Wolverine by committee, etc. It's hilarious to me how blatant those riffs are but I have to say a contemporary story involving a more "current" character is better than redoing an old story with a character struggling hold a modern fanbase.

[The World]

Yeah, okay. But with a caveat. Modern writing in it's desire for drama without consequence has really robbed the genre of the concept and impact of what death really is (yet another issue with this genre) that I'd say better to remove the idea that he ever actually died in the first place. As far as the general world knows Superman died in the fight with Doomsday but in secret he survived but in a heavily broken down state. Can't really be Superman or Clark Kent in the traditional sense and is more of a Jor-El man of science trying to save the world while barely being able to walk much. Confined largely to the FOS basically having to "work" from home, using the Superbots like an army of Pikmin, using his brain to solve the theats that face the world. Somehow hitting all of the same general story beats as Death/Return but without the nobody characters no one really remembers anymore. Could be cool.

[Agent Z]

If you hand someone a copy, you have to explain why Supergirl gets punched into a blob, why Lex is a Luthor Jr with red hair and an Australian accent, why Cyborg Superman is a Reed Richards reject, the D-list JLA, etc. I could go on. And for some people, part of the fun is going back to the 90's era Superman and watching that whole epic unfold thanks to the tight-nit continuity. I know, I was one of those kids that loved being able to see Superman's adventures play out every week. But, as a self-contained story, it isn't holding up like it used to.

Considering how many accounts I've read by people who say they got into comics because of continuity-heavy stories, this may not be as much of a problem as you might think.

[Vakanai]

Considering how many accounts I've read by people who say they got into comics because of continuity-heavy stories, this may not be as much of a problem as you might think.

But that might not be the best measurement - how likely are people who got turned away from comics because of such heavy continuity to post here? The fact that comics readership has steadily declined for decades might be held up against those posts...

[DABellWrites]

[QUOTE]I can hear some of the replies now, "We don't need to retread that story AGAIN" or "It's a classic and fine the way it is." So before I'm cast out for hypocrisy, hear me out.

I think the Death of Superman has become a story that's nearly as important as his origin. It introduces so many classic concepts/characters with Doomsday, Kon-El, Steel, Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, etc. And while it's the story that got me into Superman and I still love it to this day... it's starting to feel dated.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment. This story is not important as his origins story, it's just a like the rest of the 90s and 80s, DC Comics won't move on from it. I'd rather it's taken out of canon. It's just a pointless storyline to keep with the character. This isn't how these characters work. They need new ideas to stay fresh and new. If you have to update a story because it's becoming "dated", it's time to move on from it.

If you hand someone a copy, you have to explain why Supergirl gets punched into a blob, why Lex is a Luthor Jr with red hair and an Australian accent, why Cyborg Superman is a Reed Richards reject, the D-list JLA, etc. I could go on. And for some people, part of the fun is going back to the 90's era Superman and watching that whole epic unfold thanks to the tight-nit continuity. I know, I was one of those kids that loved being able to see Superman's adventures play out every week. But, as a self-contained story, it isn't holding up like it used to.

Of course it isn't holding up. DC Comic is long past the 90s, there is no reason why it would be able to hold up.

So what would I suggest DC do? Retell it. They recently released a Black Label book called "Harleen" that retells the origin of Harley Quinn (even though we already have the excellent "Mad Love"). I think that would be the way to go. Retell in under the Black/Digital label. Then people can pick which one they'd like to read, the old-school original or a self-contained modernization. It can be in continuity only if the reader wants it to.

Didn't they just do a "Dark Multiverse" story of Lois Lane becoming the Eradicator?

But they have to make sure the retelling hits all the major beats of the original without completely rewriting it. They just need to make it more self-contained. Something similar to the recent animated movie (without all the Darkseid nonsense).

If I had my way, I'd make it a 90's love-letter and tie in the engagement to Lois and maybe at the end of the story have them get married. Then you could have a solid before/after point in Superman's life. Any writer that want's to tell a classic Superman story before Lois knew Superman was Clark, can place it before this story. And everyone else can tell more modern tales with Lois and Clark married and their son Jon (who also needs a retelling of his origin because that's another continuity mess... maybe for another day).

But, why? What makes Death of Superman this important? I get it you love it, but I don't see the storyline as that important in this character's history.

So what do you all say? Am I crazy? Do you agree? If you do, what would be your take on a new Death & Return?

I'm okay with a re-telling outside of canon, but not keeping it in canon. Superman is stuck at DoS already.