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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    They all count in the sense that creators are now free to use the entirety of the DCU as a springboard for new stories.

    If you want a clearer idea of what Superman's backstory is, it's the same one he's always had. Some details change every few years, but the broad strokes remain the same.

    Currently, the only big change that's been made is the Kents are alive again. Everything else is the same. The overall arc of Superman's life is the same as it has always been.
    The ball has returned to my court, Bored.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I love how DC has put out around 7 origins and because of all the bullshit they’ve done, none of them are canon. I guess Jurgens broad strokes origin in Action Rebirth is still the basis so Secret Origin minus the Legion, a mix of Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and a little bit of New 52. Rebirth is still completely canon.
    Can we just go back to Birthright? I feel like it got shafted. Wasn't even his origin for a full year.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Can we just go back to Birthright? I feel like it got shafted. Wasn't even his origin for a full year.
    Maybe if Waid gets to do a follow up like he’s been hinting he might it will happen. Birthright could be folded in pretty easily into canon since there’s nothing there that outright contradicts current continuity I believe.
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  4. #34
    Spectacular Member StrikeJP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Can we just go back to Birthright? I feel like it got shafted. Wasn't even his origin for a full year.
    Forget my Death & Return idea. I'd take that being reinstated as the origin any day.

  5. #35
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Yes, if you make Jon the Superman/boy who dies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #36
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Can we just go back to Birthright? I feel like it got shafted. Wasn't even his origin for a full year.
    Birthright is my favorite Superman origin by a country mile (however the heck that differs from a regular mile). My only request would be if you could somehow fold my other favorite origin, Man and Superman, into it too - maybe as a side adventure that happened during the events of Birthright somehow. That'd be perfect.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I’m pissed at DC for wasting the “Year One” title on Frank Miller’s terrible take when it would be so much better suited to Wolfman’s origin. Wolfman’s story is the one that most closely mirrors how Miller told Batman’s origin in Batman: Year One. Both start with the hero arriving in their designated city, both struggle with how to go about using their training/gifts, both of their first attempts at being a hero are a dismal failure that almost costs them their lives, and in the end both are clearly on their way to becoming the “iconic” version even though they’re aren’t 100% there just yet.

    I’ve reconsidered what I said earlier, Man and Superman is probably the origin that actually could most easily slot in as canon, since Birthright had some minor contradictions with the mainline like Clark being vegetarian.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #38
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m pissed at DC for wasting the “Year One” title on Frank Miller’s terrible take when it would be so much better suited to Wolfman’s origin. Wolfman’s story is the one that most closely mirrors how Miller told Batman’s origin in Batman: Year One. Both start with the hero arriving in their designated city, both struggle with how to go about using their training/gifts, both of their first attempts at being a hero are a dismal failure that almost costs them their lives, and in the end both are clearly on their way to becoming the “iconic” version even though they’re aren’t 100% there just yet.

    I’ve reconsidered what I said earlier, Man and Superman is probably the origin that actually could most easily slot in as canon, since Birthright had some minor contradictions with the mainline like Clark being vegetarian.
    I no longer view "Year One" to be a title of importance in and of itself - it only ever produced good stories in the Batman corner of the DCU. Superman's best origins aren't Miller's story. Wonder Woman's isn't Year One (it's just kind of there, the best Wondie origin is The Legend of Wonder Woman; it is light years better). I think the only great Year One stories have been Batman and Batgirl (haven't read Robin's yet).

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m pissed at DC for wasting the “Year One” title on Frank Miller’s terrible take when it would be so much better suited to Wolfman’s origin. Wolfman’s story is the one that most closely mirrors how Miller told Batman’s origin in Batman: Year One. Both start with the hero arriving in their designated city, both struggle with how to go about using their training/gifts, both of their first attempts at being a hero are a dismal failure that almost costs them their lives, and in the end both are clearly on their way to becoming the “iconic” version even though they’re aren’t 100% there just yet.

    I’ve reconsidered what I said earlier, Man and Superman is probably the origin that actually could most easily slot in as canon, since Birthright had some minor contradictions with the mainline like Clark being vegetarian.
    Year One has been abused as a title but I think it's fair to say it's Miller's brand to run into the ground since he's the one who minted it, at least as a writer.

    That said, the book was woeful.

  10. #40
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yes, if you make Jon the Superman/boy who dies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If it's a good death with his story having a good run with start,middle and an end.Then yes,i would welcome it.It would be far than the rest of the superhero shlock that refuses to end or die.Giving death in comics a meaning is kinda ironic,when in the real world it gives life futility as a meaning.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  11. #41
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If it's a good death with his story having a good run with start,middle and an end.Then yes,i would welcome it.It would be far than the rest of the superhero shlock that refuses to end or die.Giving death in comics a meaning is kinda ironic,when in the real world it gives life futility as a meaning.
    I disagree. Death doesn't give life meaning, we just try and believe that because we're stuck in a world full of death. I can tell you that it wasn't anyone's death that gave them meaning to their loved ones.

    As for Jon, sure whatever just as long as he gets gone...

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m pissed at DC for wasting the “Year One” title on Frank Miller’s terrible take when it would be so much better suited to Wolfman’s origin. Wolfman’s story is the one that most closely mirrors how Miller told Batman’s origin in Batman: Year One. Both start with the hero arriving in their designated city, both struggle with how to go about using their training/gifts, both of their first attempts at being a hero are a dismal failure that almost costs them their lives, and in the end both are clearly on their way to becoming the “iconic” version even though they’re aren’t 100% there just yet.

    I’ve reconsidered what I said earlier, Man and Superman is probably the origin that actually could most easily slot in as canon, since Birthright had some minor contradictions with the mainline like Clark being vegetarian.
    Last thing we need is Superman's stories mirroring Batman's.

  13. #43
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Last thing we need is Superman's stories mirroring Batman's.
    I personally don't think Man and Superman does mirror Batman Year One - but if anyone thinks it does that's hardly a mark against it, Man and Superman is an excellent book.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Last thing we need is Superman's stories mirroring Batman's.
    But how else can we retrofit history to make Superman derivative of Batman?

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I no longer view "Year One" to be a title of importance in and of itself - it only ever produced good stories in the Batman corner of the DCU. Superman's best origins aren't Miller's story. Wonder Woman's isn't Year One (it's just kind of there, the best Wondie origin is The Legend of Wonder Woman; it is light years better). I think the only great Year One stories have been Batman and Batgirl (haven't read Robin's yet).
    The problem is I’ve met a few people who have been suckered in by the title because it’s an immediately understandable way of conveying “this is an origin story”, so a few have thought it was the origin story for Superman similar to Batman. Needless to say they were utterly baffled by what they read. If you’re going to use a title with that much weight to it, weight only added because the Year Ones for Flash, Wonder Woman, and Batman are canon, it shouldn’t be on an indulgent project for a past his prime Frank Miller. But I digress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Year One has been abused as a title but I think it's fair to say it's Miller's brand to run into the ground since he's the one who minted it, at least as a writer.

    That said, the book was woeful.
    I’m sure that was DC’s logic as well. “What’s one more origin, let the old man do his take if he wants to”. Maybe they were even hopeful that stepping away from Batman would shake him out of his doldrums. If so they were disappointed.
    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Last thing we need is Superman's stories mirroring Batman's.
    Eh an origin story by its very nature is going to hit the same basic beats. Especially when it comes to Supes & Bats.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

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