It's Time for 'The Death & Return of Superman' to be Retold

[manwhohaseverything]

I disagree. Death doesn't give life meaning, we just try and believe that because we're stuck in a world full of death. I can tell you that it wasn't anyone's death that gave them meaning to their loved ones.

As for Jon, sure whatever just as long as he gets gone...

Agree to disagree.Love itself dies.Bonds fade or change.In the grand scheme of things,Even the loved ones you think you have right now would cease to exist one way or another,one day.Espiecally if you live long enough. So,death is the only thing that gives meaning to the present,In my view.Having said that,I don't want to come across as a death worshipper. or something.I just value the present as something precious.
Sure as said,as long as the story is good and enjoyable.Maybe something to revisit as a reader.

[Vakanai]

Agree to disagree.Love itself dies.Bonds fade or change.In the grand scheme of things,Even the loved ones you think you have right now would cease to exist one way or another,one day.Espiecally if you live long enough. So,death is the only thing that gives meaning to the present,In my view.Having said that,I don't want to come across as a death worshipper. or something.I just value the present as something precious.
Sure as said,as long as the story is good and enjoyable.Maybe something to revisit as a reader.

Disagree. Yes, all things, all people die. But it isn't death that gives any of it meaning. The people I've lost in my life? They had meaning long before they died. Death didn't give them meaning. We try to make death have meaning so it'll hurt less. I don't need that crutch. Life gives life meaning. Death, death is just a thing that happens. Life would have meaning, even in a world without death life would have meaning. Death, it doesn't give life anything. And the belief that it does only exists because some people need to believe that in order to accept death We're not that far apart really, we both value the present as something precious, we only disagree on the why - I don't think the fact it ends makes it precious. The moments I've spent with loved ones were cherished long before they died. But, this is philosophy, and has no bearing on this thread...

On topic, I don't need the death of Jon to be a good story, I just want it sooner rather than later....

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The ball has returned to my court, Bored.

*Shakes cane from his porch*

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Maybe if Waid gets to do a follow up like he’s been hinting he might it will happen. Birthright could be folded in pretty easily into canon since there’s nothing there that outright contradicts current continuity I believe.

I think whatever Birthright follow up that Waid does will be its own thing, free from the constraints of trying to fit into whatever continuity box his original story had to fit within.

At least I hope so. I want Waid to just tell the story he wants to tell.

[Robanker]

*Shakes cane from his porch*

*Enjoys a nice, fresh cone of his favorite Ice Cream, Living Kents, from his equally crotchety porch.*

Ahh, the sweet, sweet taste of corn-fed fortune cookie seniors. I'll enjoy you for the next handful of years.

[Agent Z]

If you hand someone a copy, you have to explain why Supergirl gets punched into a blob, why Lex is a Luthor Jr with red hair and an Australian accent, why Cyborg Superman is a Reed Richards reject, the D-list JLA, etc. I could go on. And for some people, part of the fun is going back to the 90's era Superman and watching that whole epic unfold thanks to the tight-nit continuity. I know, I was one of those kids that loved being able to see Superman's adventures play out every week. But, as a self-contained story, it isn't holding up like it used to.

Considering how many accounts I've read by people who say they got into comics because of continuity-heavy stories, this may not be as much of a problem as you might think.

[Vakanai]

Considering how many accounts I've read by people who say they got into comics because of continuity-heavy stories, this may not be as much of a problem as you might think.

But that might not be the best measurement - how likely are people who got turned away from comics because of such heavy continuity to post here? The fact that comics readership has steadily declined for decades might be held up against those posts...

[Vakanai]

I think whatever Birthright follow up that Waid does will be its own thing, free from the constraints of trying to fit into whatever continuity box his original story had to fit within.

At least I hope so. I want Waid to just tell the story he wants to tell.

I mean, it kind of has too. It's been roughly two decades I think since Birthright? Assuming a followup takes place shortly after that book, which editor or whatever is going to impose whatever continuity rules were in place back then? It kind of has to be it's own thing by now, just due to the sheer amount of time that's passed.

[Adekis]

It's time for the death and return to be retold.

Nohohohoho it is not. We have like, three or more of those in the last fifteen years. Superman: Doomsday, the Death and Return animated movies, the comic retelling that came out along with the movies, and Batman v Superman and whichever Justice League cut you prefer.

And even if we didn't have all that, I'd still say no. We need more strong, original ideas, not to retread old ground. And certainly not to retread old ground that's become a cliche in and of itself by now.

I'm sure I'm far from the first person in this thread to say all that, but I wanted to add to what I'm sure is a dogpile at this point.

[Kuwagaton]

Since "derivative of Batman" came up well... Batman borrows from Superman all the time. They all do. Captain Marvel even got hit with a lawsuit over it, right? The least they can do is get a good original idea for him to borrow.

Anyway origin stories are constantly done and even the good ones are redundant. Morrison got it as right as possible by essentially working it into an ongoing story instead of making it its own story. But we need another origin like we need a proper redo of Death and Return. Origins literally sit on the bottom of the pile of stories, pull it out and you kinda upturn the stack. With all of the traditions and cornerstone beats... stories where you go in like, "how will they handle____?" Because although you haven't even read it you already know it'll happen. Bleh.

I no longer view "Year One" to be a title of importance in and of itself - it only ever produced good stories in the Batman corner of the DCU. Superman's best origins aren't Miller's story. Wonder Woman's isn't Year One (it's just kind of there, the best Wondie origin is The Legend of Wonder Woman; it is light years better). I think the only great Year One stories have been Batman and Batgirl (haven't read Robin's yet).

Robin Year One was excellent, but I'm not sure of the difference in the experience if one hasn't read the (obscure) Gauntlet story. They should really package those together, especially since Lee Weeks is well known with Batman work now.

JLA Year One was probably the best of its kind outside of the original. The Year One annuals across the board had some good ones. I'd rather they packaged the original 4 part Superman Year One (maybe with the zero issues, that's kind of a neat gimmick). But of course that wouldn't sell nearly as well as the three issues from Miller and eventual collections of that story, regardless of the difference in quality.

But that might not be the best measurement - how likely are people who got turned away from comics because of such heavy continuity to post here? The fact that comics readership has steadily declined for decades might be held up against those posts...

They've been trying to serve both masters for a long time and kinda failing. I think the decline of comic sales only makes sense given the world we live in, but you look at notable Marvel properties like X-Men, Spider-Man, and Hulk and they're embracing the most convoluted and dense aspects of lore

[Vakanai]

They've been trying to serve both masters for a long time and kinda failing. I think the decline of comic sales only makes sense given the world we live in, but you look at notable Marvel properties like X-Men, Spider-Man, and Hulk and they're embracing the most convoluted and dense aspects of lore

But are those books bringing in a lot of new readers, or just a larger share of the already existing/dwindling readership than usual?

[Jon Clark]

But are those books bringing in a lot of new readers, or just a larger share of the already existing/dwindling readership than usual?

I think we are past the point of worrying about new readers vs old readers and should just celebrate that a book has readers.

[Kuwagaton]

Pretty much, but I think the character should hsve at least this many fans.

But are those books bringing in a lot of new readers, or just a larger share of the already existing/dwindling readership than usual?

There are a lot of reasons that comics as an industry should fail if we're honest, but those things make it so unique. Like to an extent they really can't worry so much about appealing to people who might stay on as much as people who do stay on. All of the bending over backwards for "new reader friendly" this and that, but the person buying this number one is more likely the same person who bought the last, and the person who keeps buying after your trade sized arc.

[Clark_Kent]

I don't think you have to explain anything if you hand someone a copy. The Triangle Era was extremely good at doing flashback pages to fill the reader in...for example, Lex II is explained in 5 panels during the Funeral for a Friend section (Action Comics 686). Supergirl situation gets a flashback, and Superman #81 serves as an origin story for Henshaw.

I think if you tell that new reader "just keep reading, they explain everything", then you're good to go.

[Citizen Kane]

That would be like retelling The Killing Joke—pointless. Leave the classics alone.