Favored WW characterization?

[tyusmax]

Also, my favorite WW run was George Perez.
I liked it best b/c IMO it balanced warrior/ambassador/caring and inspirational woman the best.

I haven't gone in depth through the WW forums here, but what i have seen seems to heavily favor diplomat/caring and inspirational woman the best.
And then heavily criticize anything to the contrary.

Perez's run did kill a few people. He tried to keep it to a minimum, but they were there.

It isn't to the point where the Power of Love is the solution to everything, but I think opinions here lean more to that side?

Am I wrong? Is there more of a balance favored?

[I'm a Fish]

I like Rucka's WW, but Rucka's WW is basically Perez's WW with more experience.

I also really like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman (with the exception of JL) because I though she was the prefect balance between Marston's sassier, prankster Wonder Woman and Perez's more gentle, naïve, smart and wise Wonder Woman.


People talk about "balancing" her warrior and diplomate sides, but does Batman have to balance his martial arts and detective sides? The definition of a warrior is a person engaged or experienced in warfar; or more broadly, a person engaged in some struggle or conflict. So by that broader definition aren't all superheroes warriors?

People think being a warrior means being willing take a life; and in Diana's case, enjoying battling criminals or being more willing to take a life than anyone else on the Justice League, which isn't true (depending one the writer you get, unfortunately). So, ultimately there is no "balancing" Diana warrior and diplomate sides because they were never in conflict to begin with, and a smart writer will recognize that.



(But yes, I do prefer a Wonder Woman who is diplomatic, caring and inspirational. Who would always rater reform a villain instead of kill them.)

[Gaius]

Comics: Rucka's WW, mainly his first run who was pretty much Perez's WW but more experience/"grown up".

Other Media: Gadot and Carter are fairly good reps of WW from the respective eras they pull influence from.

I like Rucka's WW, but Rucka's WW is basically Perez's WW with more experience.

I also really like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman (with the exception of JL) because I though she was the prefect balance between Marston's sassier, prankster Wonder Woman and Perez's more gentle, naïve, smart and wise Wonder Woman.


People talk about "balancing" her warrior and diplomate sides, but does Batman have to balance his martial arts and detective sides? The definition of a warrior is a person engaged or experienced in warfar; or more broadly, a person engaged in some struggle or conflict. So by that broader definition aren't all superheroes warriors?

People think being a warrior means being willing take a life; and in Diana's case, being more willing to take a life than anyone else on the Justice League, which isn't true (depending one the writer you get, unfortunately). So, ultimately there is no "balancing" Diana warrior and diplomate sides because they were never in conflict to begin with, and a smart writer will recognize that.

Well, since Bats doesn't display much detecting in recent years maybe writers should do that for him more.

[I'm a Fish]

Well, since Bats doesn't display much detecting in recent years maybe writers should do that for him more.

Yeah, good point. Although from what I've skimmed of Tyrion's run he appears to be trying at least.

[Alpha]

I already ranted about this this week in the "controversial opinions" thread so I won't bother other people with it. I just think the best take on Wonder Woman is that of a swashbuckling wrestler with the spirit of a curious adventurer and poet.

William Messner-Loeb is my favourite Wonder Woman writer when it comes to her voice. He really nailed the fun loving side along with the sass and the talent for reassuring others, and he did it all in a very natural way to me, with the right words and actions. When she cared about someone it wasn't because they were nice or simple, it was because they had something interesting in them that she liked. I'd say he just lacked the poetic voice. Diana should have something of an artist in how she interacts with the world. Playing with things and finding the uniqueness in them.

[Amazon Swordsman]

I already ranted about this this week in the "controversial opinions" thread so I won't bother other people with it. I just think the best take on Wonder Woman is that of a swashbuckling wrestler with the spirit of a curious adventurer and poet.

I like this, and it’s a bit of my head cannon as far as characterization for her goes. My Wonder Woman becomes a bit of a pro wrestling fanatic, and incorporates some of that into her fighting. I’d also throw in a bit of Gail Simone’s humor.

[Frank]

William Messner-Loeb is my favourite Wonder Woman writer when it comes to her voice. He really nailed the fun loving side along with the sass and the talent for reassuring others, and he did it all in a very natural way to me, with the right words and actions. When she cared about someone it wasn't because they were nice or simple, it was because they had something interesting in them that she liked. I'd say he just lacked the poetic voice. Diana should have something of an artist in how she interacts with the world. Playing with things and finding the uniqueness in them.

This! Messner-Loebs is my favorite WW writer. She knew how powerful she was, but didn't feel the need to flaunt. She cares about people, and even with villains, she tried to de-escalate without violence. And he wrote a Diana who turned enemies into friends more than any other writer since Marston. I just wish he'd been paired with an artist was better at drawing the more human stories Loebs was trying to tell. I understand that Deodato was new, that his layouts were exciting, and that sales went up. But the kind of art he was producing for the title didn't match the kinds of stories Loebs was telling. I also think, in the later part of his run, Loebs was trying to adapt his storytelling to Deodato's strengths somewhat, but that still didn't make them a great match. On the other hand, I'm glad we got Artemis and her insanely long ponytail out of it!

[SiegePerilous02]

Also, my favorite WW run was George Perez.
I liked it best b/c IMO it balanced warrior/ambassador/caring and inspirational woman the best.

I haven't gone in depth through the WW forums here, but what i have seen seems to heavily favor diplomat/caring and inspirational woman the best.
And then heavily criticize anything to the contrary.

Perez's run did kill a few people. He tried to keep it to a minimum, but they were there.

It isn't to the point where the Power of Love is the solution to everything, but I think opinions here lean more to that side?

Am I wrong? Is there more of a balance favored?

I think it's more that people don't want the warrior aspect Flanderized too much and it's why there can be kneejerk backlash against her being overly aggressive and taking lives. We've seen a possible route it can go down and it isn't pretty.

You will see Perez and Rucka get comparatively less criticisms for this aspect because they actually wrote her very well. Perez's Wonder Woman was willing to kill as a last resort, but like you say he put the effort in to showcase it being a minimum. Rucka's WW is basically Perez's as an adult woman, her reasoning for killing both Max and Medusa was more mature than what we get in other takes. He also didn't have her killing human criminals below her weight class no matter how much they disgusted her. See the human traffickers at the beginning of the Bronze Door arc. Or in Year One, where she is faced with a similar situation as the JL terrorist scene, with the Sear group shooting up a mall. She didn't kill a single one because it's well within her power to not do so.

[Gaius]

I think it's more that people don't want the warrior aspect Flanderized too much and it's why there can be kneejerk backlash against her being overly aggressive and taking lives. We've seen a possible route it can go down and it isn't pretty.

You will see Perez and Rucka get comparatively less criticisms for this aspect because they actually wrote her very well. Perez's Wonder Woman was willing to kill as a last resort, but like you say he put the effort in to showcase it being a minimum. Rucka's WW is basically Perez's as an adult woman, her reasoning for killing both Max and Medusa was more mature than what we get in other takes. He also didn't have her killing human criminals below her weight class no matter how much they disgusted her. See the human traffickers at the beginning of the Bronze Door arc. Or in Year One, where she is faced with a similar situation as the JL terrorist scene, with the Sear group shooting up a mall. She didn't kill a single one because it's well within her power to not do so.

Made the mistake of re-reading Year One just as the Snyder Cut came out, so that scene was the one the mind for me.

At least it didn't have that motif.

[tyusmax]

Maybe I should reread Rucka's run.

Been a long time since i read it. I mostly remember not liking Veronica Cale at all, at the time.

[I'm a Fish]

Maybe I should reread Rucka's run.

Been a long time since i read it. I mostly remember not liking Veronica Cale at all, at the time.

Did you read both of his runs? I found Cale to be much more enjoyable in the second run.

[SiegePerilous02]

Made the mistake of re-reading Year One just as the Snyder Cut came out, so that scene was the one the mind for me.

At least it didn't have that motif.

Sad lamentation music plays as we read Year One, and have to deal with the fact that Diana not killing the villains means we sympathize with the terrorists

[I'm a Fish]

Sad lamentation music plays as we read Year One, and have to deal with the fact that Diana not killing the villains means we sympathize with the terrorists

I've actually seen a surprising amount of people criticize that scene. I was kind of surprised, even though I feel like I shouldn't be because if you replace Wonder Woman in that scene with Superman or Spider-man (who is considerably weaker than her) people would be outraged. But a lot of people either found it funny, inappropriate or both.

[Gaius]

I've actually seen a surprising amount of people criticize that scene. I was kind of surprised, even though I feel like I shouldn't be because if you replace Wonder Woman in that scene with Superman or Spider-man (who is considerably weaker than her) people would be outraged. But a lot of people either found it funny, inappropriate or both.

The song, slow-mo, and the baseball slide bullet blocking all combined made it probably the funniest thing in the movie to me.

[tyusmax]

I've actually seen a surprising amount of people criticize that scene. I was kind of surprised, even though I feel like I shouldn't be because if you replace Wonder Woman in that scene with Superman or Spider-man (who is considerably weaker than her) people would be outraged. But a lot of people either found it funny, inappropriate or both.

Eh, as they had Spider-man murdering people in IW/Endgame, and nobody's really said anything about it. I'm not so sure how much outrage there would be.


Also, I just want to say I understand that a lot of people had problems with WW killing the terrorists in that scene.
But I do think the movie did showcase WW's caring/inspiring part of her character a lot.
From her talking to the little girl after the terrorists to reaching out to Cyborg and trying to help him accept himself, I think these were really good WW moments.