The Riddler (Edward Nigma)

[phonogram12]

Quick question
In the 90s there's a story of Riddler almost killing a baby by making her hard to breathe that Batman had to carve an emergency tube through her throat
That seems uncharacteristically dark, and not just because I'm coming from Batman 66 and Forever but also every single Riddler iteration I saw has him kinda goofy or dorky, excepting that and Tom King.
Don't know what's the name of the story or issue number

It's from a story called "Dark Knight, Dark City." Basically, The Riddler's possessed by a demon and it was making Eddie perform rituals that would unleash him upon the world. Batman even noted how out of character this was for Nygma.

[Restingvoice]

It's from a story called "Dark Knight, Dark City." Basically, The Riddler's possessed by a demon and it was making Eddie perform rituals that would unleash him upon the world. Batman even noted how out of character this was for Nygma.

Ooooh okay good. I haven't picked it up, I just saw the opening page

[K7P5V]

For what it's worth, I enjoyed "When is a Door...? - The Secret Origin of The Riddler" from Neil Gaiman (XD)

[phonogram12]

For what it's worth, I enjoyed "When is a Door...? - The Secret Origin of The Riddler" from Neil Gaiman (XD)

This whole issue was fantastic. The Riddler origin had great art and the fact that Neil Gaiman wrote more or less the origin of Frank Gorshin's Riddler was nothing short of brilliant.

[Alpha]

So let's talk about the ideas "Dreadful Reins" (Tom King's One Bad Day one shot about Riddler) brings to Riddler as a character. Regardless of how you feel about the story it does have many ideas I think have a lot of potential.

The first one I want to highlight is that it creates a clear aesthetic distinction between Riddler and Joker. In The Killing Joke, Batman follows the villain to his natural habitat, a Gotham Carnival. In Dreaful Reins, Batman follows Riddler to his natural habitat, Gotham's private school. Riddler is like a private school nerd that needs to assert his dominance not through physical force but through intelectual / academic superiority.



This is his best look because it's how a private school teacher, a prep boy would dress like if he became a super villain. The cane, the mask (like glasses) the suit, the hat. Everything about it screams superior academia

This also makes me believe that someone should write stories about how Riddler's crew is actually just a bunch of incel private school kids that never win the first prize and that hate their parents, private clubs, athletes, teachers, awards ceremonies, and general administration for all these institutions. They look at Riddler as the champion of those that "obviously cheat" to get to get first place. Riddler asserts himself as the intelectual Alpha, more intelligent than all of them, and lets them join and commit to execute the best schemes so they impress him. They are all semi intelligent, but very immature sore losers. This is a group of fanatic incels.


The other thing the Tom King One Shot made me realize is that Riddler really isn't smart and the best proof of that is that he could never solve any riddles, he just studied all the answers to every riddle he could find and memorized it. The whole "dead mother" aspect was a terrible idea, but his father beating full success into his spirit, and him suffering because that teacher thought that the challenge was an innocent thing, is beyond brilliant from an emotional standpoint, and justifies the insecurity in Nygma on a deeper level because he lacks that crucial trait of creative thinking.

I also like that the Private School motif highlights the fact that Riddler thinks Batman is just a jock that wants to beat him in the Basketball court, and can't handle his Riddles, and he thinks it's unfair for Batman to punch him

[Immortal Weapon]

Riddler has always been my favorite Batman villain. BTAS and the Arkham series being my favorite versions of the character.

[Frontier]

So let's talk about the ideas "Dreadful Reins" (Tom King's One Bad Day one shot about Riddler) brings to Riddler as a character. Regardless of how you feel about the story it does have many ideas I think have a lot of potential.

The first one I want to highlight is that it creates a clear aesthetic distinction between Riddler and Joker. In The Killing Joke, Batman follows the villain to his natural habitat, a Gotham Carnival. In Dreaful Reins, Batman follows Riddler to his natural habitat, Gotham's private school. Riddler is like a private school nerd that needs to assert his dominance not through physical force but through intelectual / academic superiority.



This is his best look because it's how a private school teacher, a prep boy would dress like if he became a super villain. The cane, the mask (like glasses) the suit, the hat. Everything about it screams superior academia

This also makes me believe that someone should write stories about how Riddler's crew is actually just a bunch of incel private school kids that never win the first prize and that hate their parents, private clubs, athletes, teachers, awards ceremonies, and general administration for all these institutions. They look at Riddler as the champion of those that "obviously cheat" to get to get first place. Riddler asserts himself as the intelectual Alpha, more intelligent than all of them, and lets them join and commit to execute the best schemes so they impress him. They are all semi intelligent, but very immature sore losers. This is a group of fanatic incels.


The other thing the Tom King One Shot made me realize is that Riddler really isn't smart and the best proof of that is that he could never solve any riddles, he just studied all the answers to every riddle he could find and memorized it. The whole "dead mother" aspect was a terrible idea, but his father beating full success into his spirit, and him suffering because that teacher thought that the challenge was an innocent thing, is beyond brilliant from an emotional standpoint, and justifies the insecurity in Nygma on a deeper level because he lacks that crucial trait of creative thinking.

I also like that the Private School motif highlights the fact that Riddler thinks Batman is just a jock that wants to beat him in the Basketball court, and can't handle his Riddles, and he thinks it's unfair for Batman to punch him

I forget what Quiz and Query's backstories were...

I prefer Riddler to be this low-effort genius who thinks he's smarter than everybody else and just has to flaunt it and his ego in front of everybody because he has to be acknowledged for it. I don't think he needs some kind of tragic backstory, or at least an in-depth one, to facilitate that. He's not as smart as he thinks he is, but I think it defeats the point if he isn't at least above-average intelligent because his plots go beyond just his riddles most of the time.

[godisawesome]

I still think it’s a bad idea conceptually to try and plug Riddler into a Joker-esque formula; even this one feels like it just points that out, since the “he needs a counterpart to Joker’s circus… aha! A prep school!” thing just makes him as a lamer Joker even more on the nose. I also just hate the idea that he’s not actually smart - mostly because that becomes both a weakness for the character (and one that, again, becomes glaring when put up against Joker) *and* an excuse for a writer to be lazy when writing the character.

I’m still not really a fan of the pure, archetypal “crazy serial killer” from The Batman, but at least Reeves did something other guys refuse to do and focused on making Riddler actually smart and making his “riddles” a compelling mystery rather than just a gimmick.

“Diet Joker’s” always a bad look for Riddler, but “Pathetic Nerd Diet Joker” is worse.

I still think the Arkham and Gotham idea of him as a brilliant, under-appreciated, and eventually narcissistically sociopathic cop-gone-bad is the best origin story, and that he really should be about blackmail, extortion, robbery, and manipulation in a brutal but still mostly rational way. Make him the bad-guy who’s probably much smarter than Joker… but foolish enough to only act if he can challenge someone.

[Nero]

The Riddler has always remained in my top three favorite Batman rogues. My all time favorite depiction of the Riddler thus far consist of what was done with him in Batman the Animated Series.

[godisawesome]

The Riddler has always remained in my top three favorite Batman rogues. My all time favorite depiction of the Riddler thus far consist of what was done with him in Batman the Animated Series.

John Glover playing an actually somewhat practical (within limits ) and charismatic criminal in episodes that the writers admitted/bragged they had to make sure were actually smart and thus had trouble doing more than three times total. BTAS Nygma wants revenge, then freedom from prosecution, then a fortune and a win over Batman - he’s still irrational enough for his gimmick, but actually has a strategic mindset.

And I still say the great triumph of the BTAS episodes was making Riddler smart enough that Batman had to beat him with lateral thinking and “cheat” twice, while actually needing a great ”locked room mystery” solution to Riddler’s ”perfect” murder attempt.

A Riddler Batman has to cheat against sometimes is formidable, while one who relies on riddles that Google could solve is lame.

[Frontier]

John Glover playing an actually somewhat practical (within limits ) and charismatic criminal in episodes that the writers admitted/bragged they had to make sure were actually smart and thus had trouble doing more than three times total. BTAS Nygma wants revenge, then freedom from prosecution, then a fortune and a win over Batman - he’s still irrational enough for his gimmick, but actually has a strategic mindset.

And I still say the great triumph of the BTAS episodes was making Riddler smart enough that Batman had to beat him with lateral thinking and “cheat” twice, while actually needing a great ”locked room mystery” solution to Riddler’s ”perfect” murder attempt.

A Riddler Batman has to cheat against sometimes is formidable, while one who relies on riddles that Google could solve is lame.

Not to mention he was the only major Rogue who never really got an episode in TNBA. Even Bane at least got his moment in Over the Edge.

[signalman112]

Sasha from CASUALLY COMICS did a video on Riddler's henchwomen Echo and Query.

[exile001]

Not to mention he was the only major Rogue who never really got an episode in TNBA. Even Bane at least got his moment in Over the Edge.

Did you see what they did to his design in TNBA? It might be for the best. Lol.

[exile001]

Duplicate post

[K7P5V]

Riddler has always been my favorite Batman villain. BTAS and the Arkham series being my favorite versions of the character.

The Riddler has always remained in my top three favorite Batman rogues. My all time favorite depiction of the Riddler thus far consist of what was done with him in Batman the Animated Series.

John Glover playing an actually somewhat practical (within limits ) and charismatic criminal in episodes that the writers admitted/bragged they had to make sure were actually smart and thus had trouble doing more than three times total. BTAS Nygma wants revenge, then freedom from prosecution, then a fortune and a win over Batman - he’s still irrational enough for his gimmick, but actually has a strategic mindset.

And I still say the great triumph of the BTAS episodes was making Riddler smart enough that Batman had to beat him with lateral thinking and “cheat” twice, while actually needing a great ”locked room mystery” solution to Riddler’s ”perfect” murder attempt.

A Riddler Batman has to cheat against sometimes is formidable, while one who relies on riddles that Google could solve is lame.

Chiming in with my agreement that BTAS Riddler is The G.O.A.T. (IMHO):