Captain Marvel in Children of the Atom #2

[Triniking1234]

I don't see the point of being hung up on Sinister working with the Nazis. The character was kidnapping homeless people in London (or w/e. It's England), mentally ill people, Vietnamese people during that war, various children, other mutants, etc.

Claremont (who wrote the WW2 story) just wanted to make him look more evil and didn't care about what Twitter would think about it years later.

[CosmiComic]

I don't see the point of being hung up on Sinister working with the Nazis. The character was kidnapping homeless people in London (or w/e. It's England), mentally ill people, Vietnamese people during that war, various children, other mutants, etc.

Claremont (who wrote the WW2 story) just wanted to make him look more evil and didn't care about what Twitter would think about it years later.

Because X-Men makes a big deal about how Magneto was persecuted in the Holocaust and how Genosha and Sentinels are the same

[Brian B]

I don't see the point of being hung up on Sinister working with the Nazis. The character was kidnapping homeless people in London (or w/e. It's England), mentally ill people, Vietnamese people during that war, various children, other mutants, etc.

Claremont (who wrote the WW2 story) just wanted to make him look more evil and didn't care about what Twitter would think about it years later.

I’m not “hung up” that Sinister is depicted as a war criminal Nazi. We’ve had the Red Skull since before WWII.

It’s disturbing to see a fictional Nazi like Sinister made into the leader of a government of super heroes. Again, I am trusting Hickman is going somewhere with this. They never redeemed the Red Skull and I don’t really expect Hickman will do anything but reveal Sinister to be the absolutely evil villain he is.

What really disturbs me is to see X fans making excuses for Sinister. I think people who do that are missing the point, which is Sinister is an evil villain and Nazi war criminal.

I am enjoying Hickman’s depiction of Sinister so far, despite being skeeved out at him being a head of Krakoa’s government, but I think Hickman is going to bring it back to Sinister being evil and irredeemable.

[Brian B]

I don't see the point of being hung up on Sinister working with the Nazis. The character was kidnapping homeless people in London (or w/e. It's England), mentally ill people, Vietnamese people during that war, various children, other mutants, etc.

Claremont (who wrote the WW2 story) just wanted to make him look more evil and didn't care about what Twitter would think about it years later.

Also, again, to be clear, Sinister as depicted would not have been working “with” the Nazis. He was a Nazi, one of the chief war criminals, running the Holocaust, right up their with Hitler and Himmler, doing things way worse than even what Red Skull has been shown to be involved with and ordering, and at clearly a higher rank or authority than the Red Skull. Sinister is evil.

[Rang10]

Again, “Genosha” and “M-Day” are NOT real. And M-Day isn’t even a fictional genocide. Come off it.

If you’re going to be outraged by Marvel’s and Hickman’s fictions and fans’ attitudes toward them, BroHomo, be upset that they made a fictional Nazi war criminal — but certainly based on REAL events — into the a head of a government of supposed super heroes. The Holocaust was real, not some magical b.s. that never happened, like “M-Day.”

I’m still hanging on, wondering where Hickman is going with this. I’m trusting he’s going somewhere satisfactory with all of this.

I think that sometimes is reated a burry line between fiction and real world. For example Nick Spencer saying that hydra weren't nazis and then on Agents of shield tv show a main character saying that all Hydra are nazis. Nazis are one of their incrnations, so they are nazis.

I really hope too, that is addressed. This is a huge WTF the mutants are thinking moment

[CosmiComic]

I think that sometimes is reated a burry line between fiction and real world. For example Nick Spencer saying that hydra weren't nazis and then on Agents of shield tv show a main character saying that all Hydra are nazis. Nazis are one of their incrnations, so they are nazis.

I really hope too, that is addressed. This is a huge WTF the mutants are thinking moment

I know Hydra has tried to distance itself from Nazis, but they're Nazis too

[Triniking1234]

Also, again, to be clear, Sinister as depicted would not have been working “with” the Nazis. He was a Nazi, one of the chief war criminals, running the Holocaust, right up their with Hitler and Himmler, doing things way worse than even what Red Skull has been shown to be involved with and ordering, and at clearly a higher rank or authority than the Red Skull. Sinister is evil.

Slow down there. In the Excalibur story, he was a replacement for Dr. Josef Mengele, which explained how he got Jewish children to experiment on and how he first met Magneto. Dr. Mengele wasn't high up in the food chain as Shmidt who was basically Hitler's protege.

I think that sometimes is reated a burry line between fiction and real world. For example Nick Spencer saying that hydra weren't nazis and then on Agents of shield tv show a main character saying that all Hydra are nazis. Nazis are one of their incrnations, so they are nazis.

I really hope too, that is addressed. This is a huge WTF the mutants are thinking moment

This was already addressed. The HYDRA that Lee and Kirby used in their Nick Fury stories weren't Nazis since it was a different sect. The sects that were allied with Baron von Strucker was Nazis.

[CosmiComic]

This was already addressed. The HYDRA that Lee and Kirby used in their Nick Fury stories weren't Nazis since it was a different sect. The sects that were allied with Baron von Strucker was Nazis.

I forgot about that division.

[Brian B]

Slow down there. In the Excalibur story, he was a replacement for Dr. Josef Mengele, which explained how he got Jewish children to experiment on and how he first met Magneto. Dr. Mengele wasn't high up in the food chain as Shmidt who was basically Hitler's protege.

No, you slow down there.

Being someone’s protege doesn’t make you second in command. And I think you need a history lesson as to who and what Josef Mengele was, who all the camp “doctors” were.

The Nazi doctors at Auschwitz and other camps weren’t just some war criminal scientists doing horrific medical experiments, which they were doing. I am repeating myself, but it seems like you don’t understand.

They were, as I explained, also SS officers, which made them in charge of the security of the German Reich state and of the Nazi party. That’s pretty high ranking.

As SS officers at Auschwitz, they would have been part of Death’s Head units, in charge of carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution, the genocide and extermination of the Jewish people. Just by dint of the war crimes committed, it places people like Mengele at the very top of the lists of most wanted war criminals not just of WWII, but in the entire history of the world. It also placed Mengele as an extremely high ranking SS officer at a Nazi death camp.

To top it off, while “only” a captain, Mengele was by the end of the war the chief doctor at one of Auschwitz’s camps within the complex of camps. Not only was Mengele in charge of experiments at his camp where he was chief doctor, he was as part of that role in charge of personally selecting the victims for the gas chambers. He was also in charge of making sure the gas chambers at his camp functioned and killed properly, as well as being in charge of the actual efficacy and administration of Zyklon B, the gas, to kill the victims. By all accounts, Mengele took great pleasure in his work and he preferred to do the victim selection himself.

Were there higher ranking officials? Yes. Is there anyone more culpable, more personally responsible for as many deaths as Mengele? Debatably not or debatably so, there’s no denying he is literally one of the architects of the Holocaust. He’s as guilty if not moreso than the likes of Hitler and Himmler who ordered it. He actually carried out the orders, personally.

Sure, Red Skull is depicted as a general, but he hasn’t been shown to personally formulate the Zyklon B, personally ensure the gas chambers are working, and personally select prisoners. And then Mengele did horrific “experiments” on top of that.

When it comes to evil, Mengele is right there. And Marvel has shown us Sinister doing the same kinds of things. As you said, Sinister is a “replacement” for Mengele. That’s a really, really bad villain as presented in Marvel Comics.

In Marvel Comics, Red Skull commands troops, but he is not shown to be personally gassing Holocaust victims. But Sinister by being a colleague of Mengele’s is revealed to be one of the chiefs of absolute evil.

I don’t think Hickman’s going to bring a redemption story arc into Sinister’s role on Krakoa. He’ll be shown as the villain he is.

[Triniking1234]

I'm not copying and pasting all that but you need to realize this is the 616 continuity. Shmidt was literally Hitler's second in command in the comics according to Captain America and Invaders stories so that's what we're stuck with even if real world events were implied to have happened as well.

Sure, Red Skull is depicted as a general, but he hasn’t been shown to personally formulate the Zyklon B, personally ensure the gas chambers are working, and personally select prisoners. And then Mengele did horrific “experiments” on top of that.

Well they couldn't show that in the 40s comics and the silver age comics which were under the code so in retrospect, Red Skull ended up coming off as less horrible than Nazis in reality.

Also Hickman already showed that Sinister betrays the X-Men and Zeb Wells already portrays him villainous so we're just waiting for the eventual to happen.

[Swamp Thing 2099]

I wonder why none of the writers of her solo wanted to explore those connections so modern x-books could draw on them. Especially if they claimed to LOVE carol.

Though kelly sue did have roguje come in during her run and explained her powers. I appreciated that. But obvs carol fans who loved her so much and wrote her didn't appreciate that time in her life. I have often wondered and was in disbelief about the same thing. No carol writer remembered her past with mutants and had her show up.

Thompson has had her hang with Wolverine a handful of times.

[Confuzzled]

Screaming at a Carol thread being resurrected from the dead by a surveillance equipment shilling bot

[Rift]

Lmao even bots are dragging her for Civil War II.