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  1. #1
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    Default How would YOU have made Spider-man 3 and ASM 2?

    I hope No way home doesn't fall into the trap these movies did.

    They should've :

    Just given Venom his own movie like they eventually did.

    Not try and stick three bad guys into one movie.

    Maybe have Prof Warren(Jackal) as the ASM 2 bad guy/mystery end credits guy. Wouldve loved a spidey clone?peter Parker fight.

    Your thoughts on this?

  2. #2
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    I don't have many thoughts on Amazing Spider-man 2. I've seen the movie in out of order segments so I don't have many thoughts on it
    Regardless, there are two ways of doing Spider-man 3.

    1. You make Harry the main villain. It'll feel like a repeat of the first movie. But you also keep the plot of May having to move house. Harry becomes unreasonable and Eddie Brock is in Town. You have Eddie take the glory shots of Spider-man. Harry splits up Peter and MJ, Peter tries to fight Harry but loses.
    Act 2 begins when Peter gets the suit. He out performs Eddie, he beats up Harry and wins. But things get out of hand when he almost kills a robber. Remembering the guy who killed his uncle (you may have a scene where he escapes from Jail, Spider-man finds him and nearly kills him).
    He gets rid of the suit.
    The suit finds Eddie.

    Act 3, Harry prepares for his revenge against Spider-man. At the same time, Venom starts a killing spree. Spider-man goes to stop Venom. Green Goblin attacks Spider-man and there's a three man battle royale with green Goblin and Venom fighting over who gets Spider-man.
    Spider-man and Green Goblin decide to call a truce, fighting Venom. Venom is about to kill Spider-man but Harry saves him, proving he still cares about him. Spider-man goes crazy and stops Venom. Spider-man stays with Harry until he does. Venom disappears.
    The end

    2. You make sandman the main villain. Peter and Harry's dynamics are the same and the movie plays out similarly to the final movie, it's just without Venom.
    The ending plays out differently however with Harry dying much like Norman did. Possibly with a "I hate you."
    Peter learns what revenge and a grudge could do to a person and forgives Sandman (in this version, sandman was still responsible for Ben's death). He helps rebuild the damage he did and turns himself over with the possibility that he could be a cop or so to help with his daughter.

    My problem with Spider-man 3 was that it felt like 2 solid movies were playing at the same time, with no room to breath. With just a few elements removed and a couple of changes, Spider-man 3 could have been great. Instead, it's just good

  3. #3
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    I would've saved Venom for the next movie

    ASM2 would've had an actually a properly characterized Electro

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    With the benefit of hindsight, Spider-Man 3 should have been a two-part movie.

    Here's how I would have done it...

    Spider-Man 3
    Following the events of Spider-Man 2, Harry Osborn has gone missing and John Jameson goes to space to explore something truly unusual: an abandoned spacecraft. On the craft, Jameson is possessed by the symbiote.
    While looking for Harry, Spider-Man encounters the Black Cat, a cat burglar. Eddie Brock, a rival photographer catches some photos and suggests that Black Cat is Spidey's apprentice.
    The Hobgoblin attacks the Daily Bugle. Spider-Man thinks it's Harry. The Hobgoblin escapes.
    Mary Jane is upset that Peter is ignoring her professional struggles, but she has caught the attention of producer Roderick Kingsley.
    John Jameson returns to Earth with superpowers. Jonah convinces him to try to take down Spider-Man, believing Spidey was involved in the attack on the Bugle. The alien symbiote decides to merge with Spider-Man instead of John.
    With the symbiote, Spider-Man is stronger and more aggressive.
    Harry makes a reappearance, although he is controlled by psychiatrist Bart Hamilton.
    With the alien costume, Spider-Man takes a lot of risks in a fight with the Hobgoblin, and makes MJ jealous with the Black Cat.
    Eddie Brock is disgraced.
    A pissed off Spider-Man attacks Harry assuming him to be the Hobgoblin. He realizes that Harry has been carefully brainwashed by Hamilton, although Harry snaps out of it, remembering everything.
    Spider-Man gets rid of the Alien Costume. He solves the mystery of the Hobgoblin. Harry's psychiatrist Bart Hamilton had learned Harry's secret, and sold it to power-made narcissist Roderick Kingsley.
    Spider-Man fights the Hobgoblin. Harry is involved, in full possession of goblin gear. He leaves, ready to take out Spider-Man in the future.
    Peter and MJ reconcile. Eddie Brock finds the symbiote, and becomes Venom.

    Spider-Man 4
    Peter is looking for Harry Osborn, while Curt Connors receives funding for a project that can help him regrow his missing limb.
    Curt transforms into the Lizard.
    Spider-Man fights the Lizard, trying to save his former professor.
    Spider-Man is ambushed by Venom.
    Venom poisons and buries Spider-Man, deciding to do a better job of being a superhero.
    Venom fights the Harry Osborn Green Goblin, and he's a lot more reckless about it.
    Mary Jane searches for the missing Peter. She finds Black Cat, who doesn't know anything, and Harry, convincing him that he shouldn't live his life in his father's shadow.
    Venom uses excessive force to capture and imprison the Lizard.
    Venom also arrests Black Cat.
    Harry and Mary Jane find Peter.
    Peter, Harry and the Black Cat fight Venom. Venom's stronger, but they're working together, so they're able to overcome him.
    Venom releases the Lizard.
    Spider-Man finds and cures the Lizard.
    Felicia, Venom and Harry accept that Peter is the better man. Peter says that they have great power, and that comes with great responsibility.
    Harry decides that he wants nothing to do with being a supervillain or a superhero. He's going to figure out how to do good with his father's company.
    Venom decides California needs a superhero.
    Peter proposes to MJ, happy that there may be a day when Spider-Man won't be needed because others are taking over as superheroes.

    TLDR-
    Spider-Man 3 would be the Alien Costume saga with the Hobgoblin mystery and Black Cat
    Spider-Man 4 would be kinda like Kraven's Last Hunt with Venom as the bad guy trying to usurp Spider-Man while Lizard is in the Vermin role
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 04-18-2021 at 08:17 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    My pitch for Amazing Spider-Man 2.

    While looking for more information about his parents’ death, Peter Parker comes across Eddie Brock, a young Daily Bugle reporter. Brock’s parents were scientists who worked with the Parkers, and were killed in the same accident.

    Peter uses his connection with Brock to sell photographs to Editor Joe Robertson. Robbie’s in charge while the legendary publisher J. Jonah Jameson is heavily involved in a deal in the West Coast.

    The mystery man from the end of Amazing Spider-Man is revealed as Mac Gargan, an agent of Norman Osborn. He has been the guinea pig for the Oz experiments, which have given him strange abilities to become the Scorpion. He has an early fight with Spider-Man.

    In addition to Eddie Brock, Peter’s social circle would expand a bit. Flash Thompson is now one of his friends, since we have to set him up for the Venom series. Peter is also acquainted with Harry Osborn, son of the reclusive Norman Osborn. Gwen met him during her internship for Oscorp.

    Gwen’s family is moving to another state after her father’s death, so she needs a roommate in New York City. Before Peter can volunteer, Aunt May preemptively vetoes the idea. But she recommends Mary Jane Watson, the niece of neighbor. The poor girl has just moved to the city after her father was arrested for embezzlement. Of course, Mary Jane is not the girl Peter expected. This will be the Mary Jane of the Lee/ Romita comics.

    Gwen doesn’t care for her as much at first. Eventually, when Spider-Man is needed, Mary Jane makes it clear that she knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. She saw him sneaking out of his house a few months earlier. At that point, Gwen and MJ’s apartment may essentially become Spider-Man’s base of operation.

    Peter quickly learns that Brock has inherited samples of something their parents were working on. It’s strange organic matter that he kept in cold storage and it was meant to be a cure for cancer. Spider-Man breaks into the lab to investigate the material. An accident occurs, and he is exposed to it. This transforms him into the Alien Costume Spider-Man. That would likely be the Act One break.

    The new suit gives Spider-Man incredible powers. He has a night of fun, beating the holy hell out of criminals. He pays Gwen a visit, although she’s far more suspicious about the suit. They’re interrupted by a report about a robbery. Spider-Man goes into action, but he goes beserk upon discovering that someone’s been killed in a way that was similar to how Uncle Ben was shot.

    While chasing the killer, he briefly transforms into Venom. He nearly eats the other guy. At this point, Spider-Man realizes that the suit is nastier than he expected. It’s alive, and it’s evil.

    He tries to get rid of the suit, but it survives. The suit finds Eddie Brock. It bonds with him, and transforms him into Venom. This would be the midpoint of the film.

    The main villain would be a Venom who is allowed to spend more time tormenting Peter Parker than the Venom of Spider-Man 3 did. He’s the nightmare supervillain who has Spider-Man’s powers and knows his secret identity. He uses his abilities to continue his investigation into the dealings at Oscorp, except he’s willing to go further than Spidey. He may break into Connors’s cell to interrogate Connors, a process which transforms Connors back into the Lizard, and makes him less likely to talk than ever.

    Venom comes into conflict with Spider-Man, when he abducts Harry Osborn looking for answers. I don’t know if this Venom will have reason to hate Peter Parker yet. He may be somewhat of a bad influence on the budding superhero, thinking that Spider-Man’s just not willing to do what’s necessary and making the hero consider that there may actually be lines worth crossing.

    At some point, Flash Thompson is inspired to follow Spider-Man’s example and join the military. So Venom might later crash his going away party.

    Mac Gargan could manipulate Eddie Brock to find out how much Brock knows about Norman Osborn, and to find out more about Peter Parker. He might pretend to be a source for a hit piece Brock is writing about Osborn that hurts his reputation.

    There could be a final battle between Brock, Spider-Man and Gargan. As Brock is beaten, he transfers the suit to Gargan, to show how much he now hates Spider-Man. That might be the Act Two Climax, as the Venom suit is now in the hands of someone who was more dangerous than Brock to begin with.

    An alternate plot involves Morbius...

    He could easily fit the narrative of the Amazing Spider-Man saga, in which a dying Norman Osborn seeks scientists willing to take tremendous risks to cure his unknown condition. It could easily be established that Osborn and Morbius suffer from the same condition, which would provide him with additional incentives to try to save Osborn, even if the effort didn’t work out well for Curt Connors.

    Morbius would be a a dark mirror of what Peter Parker is afraid that he’ll turn into. His transformation could occur at any point that is convenient for a particular narrative. He could be introduced as a scientist working for Norman Osborn, before his transformation at the end of the first act. Or he could even be introduced after his metamorphosis. There’s a lot of flexibility with casting, as he could be depicted as a contemporary of Peter Parker’s, or an older scientist, whatever provides the best fit for the story.

    Emma Stone’s Gwen Stacy was an important part of the first Amazing Spider-Man, and it’s entirely possible that she’s the biggest star in these films. So it makes sense to keep her role in the sequels as prominent as it was in the first film. Providing a link between her and the villain would give her a strong role in the narrative. This would have been easier to do if she was still the daughter of a police captain, but her father was killed off at the end of Amazing Spider-Man. If Morbius is a fellow scientist with ties to Oscorp, Gwen could figure into his story. Perhaps she would feel as guilty about what happened to him as Peter Parker did with Connors in the first film.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 04-18-2021 at 08:04 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  6. #6
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    For ASM 2, I would have had a very powerful and confusing epilogue.

    We just saw Gwen Stacy die.
    For the epilogue scene, I would have shown Gwen Stacy at the airport getting onto an airplane for her internship. She of course would have been a clone, but not everyone knows the storyline, and perhaps the cone is who died. But I think people would have been talking about that scene.

    If I were to redo the entire movie, I would never have done Death of Gwen Stacy.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    The issue for me is
    -- "Would you tell the same story as the movie but better?"
    -- "Would you have your sequel tell a different story based on the previous films' set-up?"


    SPIDER-MAN 3
    -- In the case of "Would you tell the same story as the movie but better?"
    This story is about Peter/Harry/MJ and their friendship cracking up before redeeming itself over Harry's death and so on. It's also about Peter having a dark side thing. So here's what I would do -- Remove Sandman completely. Instead we'll go with Harry Goblin and Venom as the villains. The movie starts with the Symbiote and Harry Goblin fight, so we keep all of that, including amnesia and so on. So that allows for something more streamlined. Introduce Gwen Stacy as the woman Harry falls for and sees as a rebound from MJ, but then he learns that Gwen is more attracted to Peter and that starts affecting him. Meanwhile Peter uses the black costume but it starts affecting his personality so we do the Emo Peter and everything. And then Harry has nightmares and flashbacks about his father and then he gets the symbiote when Peter removes it at the church and Harry becomes Venom (whose grotesque form is more comics' accurate and is explained as a combination of Spider-Man's powers via suit and the Goblin serum). As Venom, Harry becomes dangerous and violent, stalking Peter and so on. He then attacks Gwen Stacy as dares Spider-Man to help stop her. Peter and MJ arrive in time, and this time Gwen is the damsel at the finale. Eventually the Symbiote becomes a self-aware giant monster by...consuming Gwen Stacy and using that to become a full monster and Harry dies saving Peter and avenging Gwen by fighting the monster. So basically it's the same film but streamlined.

    In terms of "would you have your sequel tell a different story" it's hard. Spider-Man 3 is a third movie after SM-1 and SM-2 and warts and all, the movie builds on the Peter/MJ/Harry story from the previous movies. Whatever issues that are there in SM-3 is a result of it being a sequel to SM-2, and SM-2 deciding to double down on Harry as a major supporting character rather than say putting him on the bus after the end of the first film. The second movie ends with Harry finding the Goblin fluid so the third movie logically has to deal with Harry Goblin, and that itself for me is a huge problem because Harry can't carry a movie by himself and any story with him as a villain is gonna have to be melodramatic because "my best friend...my worst enemy" runs on that. So it's a wash.

    THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2
    -- In the case of "Would you tell the same story as the movie but better?"
    My advice would be to drop the Electro Stuff and go full hog into Harry Osborn as the bad guy and center "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and simply follow the one lane rather than do the subplot-nobody-cares, i.e. Peter's Dad, as well as all the sequel spinoff pitch stuff. Introduce Shailene Woodleigh's Mary Jane Watson as a friend. She's the niece of May's neighbor Anna and helps Aunt May when Peter's not around and at the start since Peter and Gwen have broken up, May nudges MJ in Peter's direction. MJ though is cool and sarcastic and Peter doesn't give her the time of day. There's also a scene where Gwen and MJ meet and they get off on the wrong foot when MJ raises the issue of Gwen being upper-class and rich. Likewise, at the end of the movie after Gwen dies, do the Epilogue at the end of ASM#122, Shailene Woodleigh's MJ comes to comfort Peter but he lashes out at her for not liking Gwen and tells her to leave him alone, and she hesitates at the door but stays behind in the room to comfort Peter. And the movie ends.

    -- "Would you have your sequel tell a different story based on the previous films' set-up?"
    Ideally I would do the ASM-2 sequel in a completely different manner. Jettison all the subplots at the end of the last movie (peter's dad, blood, and so on). Have Gwen and Peter start the movie broken-up. Emma Gwen doesn't appear in the film at all. And Peter realizing he can't do relationships while in costume. And then have Black Cat show up, aka Felicia Hardy. So the second film will do the Black Cat and Peter romance. That's because Garfield's Peter can highlight those aspects of the character more than the other two Peters, it also flows logically from his breakup with Gwen because superherodom can't work with his routine. So what better way than to have him team up with someone who can be his crime-fighting partner. Keep Electro as the bad guy.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member tib2d2's Avatar
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    I would have cast Thomas Hayden Church as Eddie Brock, physically he's perfect, and you can have him as a guy butting heads with Peter at The Bugle. Then at the end you have him get the Symbiote when he's on the brink of suicide. Love the idea of John Jameson being in space at the beginning to bring the symbiote back to Earth. Maybe even have Spidey helping with the "crash landing" on Earth saving the crew, which would have pissed of JJJ to no end. Keep Harry descending into madness, maybe drugs, but no going full goblin yet.

    Keep Sandman as the villian, because it works great for a movie, just cast someone else

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyO'Brien View Post
    I hope No way home doesn't fall into the trap these movies did.

    They should've :

    Just given Venom his own movie like they eventually did.

    Not try and stick three bad guys into one movie.

    Maybe have Prof Warren(Jackal) as the ASM 2 bad guy/mystery end credits guy. Wouldve loved a spidey clone?peter Parker fight.

    Your thoughts on this?
    In general,

    as far as Spider-Man 3: No Venom. Period. Just not interested. At best, Eddie Brock is a rival photographer, but no symbiote. Keep the main villain as Sandman. However-- no sappy backstory of a sick child, and no, he was not the real killer of Ben Parker. As far as Harry, I would have him be tempted by the Goblin gear, and have several run-ins with Peter (no physical fights, just arguments), the last one he finally gets told off by Peter to grow up.. Then a portentous glance at the gear.. then in the climax against Sandman, Harry shows up for the first time in the Goblin gear, but he's showing up to help out. After taking care of Sandman (just barely), harry is wounded, but alive-- he tells Peter he wants to carve a different legacy than the one his father embraced. "No more goblins" for me.. (a brief flashback to seeing the goblin serum in one of his father's hideouts, and Harry flushes them all down, never drinking any or inhaling the gas form or however it works..)

    Gwen would be an inadvertent problem at different parts of the movie but she's never actually dating Peter.. yet.

    MJ and Peter are still dating at the end, but wistful..

    Amazing Spider-Man 2:

    No Harry as Goblin. Period. Norman is alive, but off screen.

    Electro can stay.

    No Rhino-mech suit. The Russian guy gets a Mandroid armor at the end. what a total waste of a concept.

    Gwen stays alive throughout the end. She still goes to England, though.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member ERON's Avatar
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    I'm one of the few people who actually liked Spider-Man 3, so the only change I would make would be to have Eddie Brock flee the scene instead of dying alongside the symbiote, and then have a sequel hook where he returns to the site of the battle later and finds a tiny remnant of the black costume.

    I've never made it all the way through either of the Garfield movies, so I won't comment on ASM 2.

  11. #11
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    Spider-Man 3 was close to perfect, but the only thing that still bugs me is Sandman getting away. He should have been arrested at the end!

    ASM 2 was built on a bad premise, that being ASM 1, and should not have existed under any guise. I'd rather see a full reboot than build anything else off of skate-emo Spiderboy and his wondrous, super-secret spy parents.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  12. #12

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    Spiderman I'd just streamline it. I'm not against the idea of multiple villians in a movie. I don't feel these 3 complimented each other well.

    So I'd just focus on the Harry plot and save Sandman and Venom for seperate films.

    I'd think I'd add the Vulture and his daughter from Raimi's original Spiderman 4 pitch. They could be interesting foils for Harry.

    Instead of Sandman killing Uncle Ben, I'd add Jessica Carradine.

    Jessica Carradine was the Burgular's daughter who became an anti-Spidey activist. She'd join the Bugle in an effort to discredit Spidey because he killed her father back in the first film. She's not really a villian but an antagonist at work. It's an easier retcon to pull off.

    Venom would be the new Harry-like foil for the next few films. He's a work rival who has a connection to Peter's Parents. He and Peter would team up and solve the mystery of their disappearance. Eventually Peter's parents would be accused off a crime overseas so Peter would want to exonerate them.

    Sandman would be in a film with Shocker, Rhino and a few other b-listers. It's going to be a crime centered film dealing with the Crime Master. It's more akin to Heat with focus on some criminals paralleling Peter's experience. Plus it's also a sinister Six movie.

    With Asm2 I'd just do something else. I rather not use Goblin anytime soon. So I'd do something like Revolutionary Jack's Black Cat pitch and Mister Mets's Morbius pitch.

    John Jameson would do the Captain Jupiter plot from the Spectacular Spiderman cartoon. I'd do Man-Wolf but the Lizard is more Iconic.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 04-23-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Spiderman 3 is one of the best bad movies of all time.

    Also the Sandman scene is one of the best scenes in a Spiderman film.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    -Movie would open with John Jameson's ship crash landing on earth and Spider-Man in a sequence trying to stop it.

    -The plot would be about Harry Osborn and John Jameson trying to pull a 'Born Again' on Peter and MJ by trying to dismantle their lives. MJ has to confront the fact that she humiliated John by abandoning him at the altar and Peter has to own up to Harry about lying to him and tell him the truth about Harry's father. Harry would have decide if following in his father's footsteps is really worth it. Sandman would be the wild card. He would start off as an antagonist, he is high off of his power and goes on a power trip but then someone gets hurt as a result of his actions and that inspires a change of heart.

    -Eddie Brock would be introduced to Peter as a mutual childhood friend of Peter and MJ. Peter would learn Brock is doctoring photos or some other kind of illegal shit. Eventually Peter exposes him and that causes a rift in their friendship.

    -Brock doesn't become the Venom, John Jameson does. The final battle would be Venom & Goblin vs Spider-man & Sandman. Sandman is poisoned by Venom early on in the battle but he inspires Peter by showing him the good that he can do. John Jameson's vendetta becomes too much even for Harry and the latter changes his mind in the final battle.

    -Climax of the battle would involve Eddie saving the good guys by absorbing the symbiote from Jameson. The movie ends up with the symbiote seemingly dying but we see at the end that Brock still has a sentient piece of it with him.

    -In the beginning of the movie, Harry would talk to Peter and MJ and make it seem like he buried their grudge and has moved on with their life by marrying Liz Alen but the ghosts of his father combined with goading from Jameson would push him towards the Green Goblin territory. Harry dies at the end of movie after overdosing on the Goblin formula to save his friends. Liz is pregnant with Harry's child at the end and Peter is named his Godfather.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    For Spidey 3:

    NO VENOM!!!!!

    Have Harry Goblin and Lizard the villains and Harry should've been wearing the Norman Osbourne costume instead that X-Games inspired look he was wearing.

    Don't change Uncle Ben's death by having Sandman his true killer. WTF was that?

    Forget Gwen Stacy as well.

    AND NO GIRLFRIEND SLAPPING!!!!!!!!! EVEN IF SHE'S AN EX!!!!

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