Is Superman the strongest in the universe?

[Kuwagaton]

I'm honestly really against Wonder Woman fighting Doomsday or Doomsday appearing again after Death of Superman. He was really meant to be a one-and-done villain, created for the soul purpose of killing Superman.

I don't feel like Wonder Woman has to fight or beat Doomsday to prove anything. (She takes on gods and monsters all the time, seriously what does she have to prove?)

The complaint from back then that still exists is that Doomsday ran through a B League. Wonder Woman says this herself in Doomsday Wars, so that's at least one question answered really I imagine for fan interest.

Weirdly enough WW finally makes it to the big screen and her first enemy is Doomsday lol

And Doomsday was brought back by one of his original creators for a story where Superman had unresolved issues from the experience of dying. He's been a recurring villain since his first appearance. Some may feel like Doomsday should have been one and done, but that's not true.

[babyblob]

I dont mind Doomsday coming back for more then a one shot and never did. I enjoy him He is fun for me. I just dont want to see him over used (Not that he is at all)

[OopsIdiditagain]

Superman's power has never been his problem and that was always an excuse from writers who didn't know how to write him. Made all the more clear with DCU Superman only really being like when he was stomping others into the dirt, Omni-man slaughtering the Gaurdians of the Globe being met with awe and wonder, Saitaman being unironically liked for being incredibly powerful, Jiren having the personality of wet sock but gaining popularity for being powerful, Gurren Lagan in general. Only Superman's own modern writers have the delusion that his power was a problem.

Gurren Lagann isn't the same as Saitama or Omni-man, it's always been about group effort.

[DochaDocha]

I also didn't feel like Doomsday needed to be a one-and-done, but I think after using him a few times there's a lot of diminishing returns with each subsequent appearance. And at this point, re-telling Death of Superman is just a no-no. It's been covered in almost every medium now.

[SiegePerilous02]

It's a fight that's cursed to be endlessly debated by fans over who "won". They've both had plenty of stories where they've cleaned each others clocks. And WW being in Superman's league shouldn't be a question to begin with, they've both have highs and lows, it happens.

-

But back to the OP's question on who's beaten up Superman, and while somewhat staying on the topic of Wonder Woman, you wanna know who's consistently beaten him up? Cheetah. He lost 2 for 2.

3 for 3 actually if we count the Brave and the Bold cartoon.

Cheetah is the one non-Super villain who I truly don't mind knocking around Clark a lot. But it is still demented that she has a better track record against him than the Bat-Family

[I'm a Fish]

3 for 3 actually if we count the Brave and the Bold cartoon.

Cheetah is the one non-Super villain who I truly don't mind knocking around Clark a lot. But it is still demented that she has a better track record against him than the Bat-Family

Does anyone have a good track record against the Bat family?

[DochaDocha]

3 for 3 actually if we count the Brave and the Bold cartoon.

Cheetah is the one non-Super villain who I truly don't mind knocking around Clark a lot. But it is still demented that she has a better track record against him than the Bat-Family

Because writers often get lazy and just say "magic" and Superman automatically loses. Also, Batman "has no weaknesses," so long as you don't count bullets, knives, heavy blunt objects, explosions, extreme heat, extreme cold, high-dose radiation, asphyxiation, 10+ G acceleration, pathogens, 100+ ATMs of pressure, drowning, cerebral ischemia...

Does anyone have a good track record against the Bat family?

Since this is a Superman board, I feel obligated to point out Superman, for the most part. Everyone cites (accurately or not) DKR, but in most of their canon tussles, Superman has won easily.

Wonder Woman, too.

[Gaius]

Because writers often get lazy and just say "magic" and Superman automatically loses. Also, Batman "has no weaknesses," so long as you don't count bullets, knives, heavy blunt objects, explosions, extreme heat, extreme cold, high-dose radiation, asphyxiation, 10+ G acceleration, pathogens, 100+ ATMs of pressure, drowning, cerebral ischemia...

Or his mother.

[I'm a Fish]

The complaint from back then that still exists is that Doomsday ran through a B League. Wonder Woman says this herself in Doomsday Wars, so that's at least one question answered really I imagine for fan interest.

Weirdly enough WW finally makes it to the big screen and her first enemy is Doomsday lol

And Doomsday was brought back by one of his original creators for a story where Superman had unresolved issues from the experience of dying. He's been a recurring villain since his first appearance. Some may feel like Doomsday should have been one and done, but that's not true.

But was it the writers intention to being Doomsday back when he wrote him or editorial force him? Chris Clermont also brought Jean Grey back due to editorial mandate despite it being his full intention that she say dead after The Dark Phoenix saga.

I dont mind Doomsday coming back for more then a one shot and never did. I enjoy him He is fun for me. I just dont want to see him over used (Not that he is at all)

I feel he's way over used in movies. There's already been 3 Death of Superman adaptations (I'm counting BvS). They keep making Doomsday clones that at this point Harley Quinn can take out, "Paradooms" or whatever they are called. I just feel like every time I see him he's weaker.

If people still like him, than I'm glad they can get enjoyment out of his character.

[I'm a Fish]

Because writers often get lazy and just say "magic" and Superman automatically loses. Also, Batman "has no weaknesses," so long as you don't count bullets, knives, heavy blunt objects, explosions, extreme heat, extreme cold, high-dose radiation, asphyxiation, 10+ G acceleration, pathogens, 100+ ATMs of pressure, drowning, cerebral ischemia...

They should have Superman fight Silver Banshee more often.

Since this is a Superman board, I feel obligated to point out Superman, for the most part. Everyone cites (accurately or not) DKR, but in most of their canon tussles, Superman has won easily.

Wonder Woman, too.

Well most people certainly agree Superman should win against Bats.

But a lot of Bat stands go, "but prep time". Okay, whatever floats your boat I guess...

[manwhohaseverything]

Or his mother.

Finally,batman has a weakness.Now,everycharacter can capitalise on it like the green rock.Just say martha and batman would be a sick puppy.Also,feel bad for darkseid.Damn it.Open the damn boom tubes.let him goooo!

[Superfan90]

It's a fight that's cursed to be endlessly debated by fans over who "won". They've both had plenty of stories where they've cleaned each others clocks. And WW being in Superman's league shouldn't be a question to begin with, they've both have highs and lows, it happens.

-

But back to the OP's question on who's beaten up Superman, and while somewhat staying on the topic of Wonder Woman, you wanna know who's consistently beaten him up? Cheetah. He lost 2 for 2.

In fairness Phil Jiminez had to weaken Superman by Circe's magic first and even then it was a one time deal as revealed by him on the old board. Second time it was a sneak attack by Cheetah.

Just as a behind the scenes note, I remember how difficult it was to even get that scene in the book. It was an enormous hurdle to convince the editors of the notion that the Cheetah, even god-powered, fast enough to fight Wonder Woman, and magical in nature, could sneak up on Superman and tackle him. I remember having to layer in Circe's magic sphere to help deaden Superman's senses and powers even further, and it was understood that this was a one time deal. They basically held their nose at the idea and let me do it, although I think my own editor at the time understood what such an attack could do for Cheetah, in terms of raising the character's viability as a high-level villain.

For what it's worth, I think it helped that it was a male villain. I don't think the editors ever would have approved of a successful attack on Superman if it was the Barbara Minerva Cheetah, or another female version of her.

Just my memories on the topic.

[SiegePerilous02]

In fairness Phil Jiminez had to weaken Superman by Circe's magic first and even then it was a one time deal as revealed by him on the old board. Second time it was a sneak attack by Cheetah.

Well that confirms that editors have it in for Cheetah, at least sometimes.

Really wish the scene hadn't been wasted on Sebastian. An otherwise great run, but Sebastian Ballesteros was a terrible and confusing idea.

[I'm a Fish]

In fairness Phil Jiminez had to weaken Superman by Circe's magic first and even then it was a one time deal as revealed by him on the old board.

Editorial gave Jimenez a rough time with his Wonder Woman run, I'm not surprised he had to pull teeth to get that panel in the book.

Second time it was a sneak attack by Cheetah.

A sneak attack by plowing through 3 other members before getting to Superman? Batman even warned everyone she was coming (no idea how he knew she was there before everyone else THB).

I agree though that it helped that she was in the jungle. I doubt she could have pulled it off in a city street.

[DochaDocha]

I think it's funny in general how everyone cites how badly Cheetah was disrespected in the Bat books as evidence that she gets no love, but Cheetah got the upper hand on Superman a few times AND completely owned Flash in New 52. I mean, in battle, what's the difference between Flash and Cheetah? She was essentially Flash plus (in Lex Luthor Super Friends voice) razor-sharp claws. And when she got caught in the end, didn't she get caught on purpose?