A 'Sinister" Revelation in ASM 64?

[Spiderfan001]

I wasn't really sure where else to post this but I just thought it was interesting, "deleted" page from ASM 56 with Peter calling Matt in prison. https://www.comicartfans.com/Gallery...?Piece=1721750

Why in the name of all that is good in this world was this deleted.Why just........ Why!*Insert Micheal Scott Noooo*

[NC_Yankee]

The problem with One More Day was that it was never designed to be good. It was designed to essentially be a soft reboot, ending the Marriage because Marvel saw it as a problem that was inherited during the late 80's.

I've noticed around this time there was this nasty snark in the underbelly of Spider-man stories.
Peter would laugh and say "I'm too young to get married" which may just be a reference to the fact that editorial have historically been against the marriage.
It only seems with Spencer, do you have a genuine attempt to address OMD. Last Remains was an entire arc that almost felt like it was a loose conclusion to the three part arc of One More Day and One Moment in Time with it heavily implying the deal was wrong.
I think Marvel have regrets over how they handled it, but I don't think they regret getting rid of the marriage. It's a problem that the newer editorial have now inherited.
For the most part, a lot of the big names during that era in terms of both editing and writing have left, with only Nick Lowe and Dan Slott still being around at Marvel, and Slott is so far away from Spider-man at this point that he doesn't have any input on the comics at all (I know there are other editors, but they've had nothing to do with Spider-man and do their own thing).
Quesada is still with Marvel in a limited capacity and the rest have either moved on or in different sections of the company.
However, Marvel is a very different company now to what it was in 2007 and we have to face the facts, the marriage lasted about 20 years, One More Day happened about 15 years ago and People are still talking about it.
Peter hitting MJ during the Clone Saga never gets talked about but Hank Pym hitting Janet does.
MJ smoking never gets talked about because it was just a stupid way to split them up.

I've said before, I'm okay with them splitting up, hell, they could have waited 5 years and split them up after Superior. The trouble was how they did it, and I think the writers understand that.

There's a reason why Spencer's run starts with "To have and to hold" and it's not just because that's a good deep cut reference, but because that comic was actually saying it was against One More Day.
The issue with Mary-Jane was that Marvel didn't really like her, but the fans did. So you have this awkward situation where you have to keep the fans happy but the writers and editors remain unhappy. At least that's what it was like in the 90's. By the 2000's, it was just a few People gunning for their marriage to end and those were the vocal, powerful groups.

Quesada's time as Editor in Chief will be remembered for his hand in One More Day, not that Marvel during his tenure was actually pretty good. It was the last big he did and is ultimately his legacy.
The problem with Dan Slott wasn't that his work was bad, once he got Amazing to himself, he was great, and I enjoyed Superior as well, but it was that he played into the snarky group while the other writers just wanted to tell their stories.
He basically joined in with the laughing at the audience during those early stories. "Oh there is a mugger, I should stop him as Spider-Man, but no I shouldn't because I don't want Jonah to sell papers".
That first Brand New Day arc left a worse impression on me than One More Day as instead of continuing with grace, it was snarky comments about a Peter Parker that doesn't exist.

Nowadays, the time has changed a lot. Slott left Amazing almost immediately after Alonso left, which leaves me to believe one of two things, he was taken off the book or he jumped off for the big company relaunch.

I do want to point out however how funny it is that Marvel wanted Spider-man to be young, especially as Ultimate Spider-man was coming out at that time and did everything that Marvel wanted Spider-man to be.
In fact, it did things better

You are right and wrong. You are correct about Dan Slott and his snarky comments and interactions with readers. Where you are wrong is this: Dan Slott is the kind of guy that if corporate told him to make Red Skull Spider-Man or Peter a Nazi he would do it. In fairness, I do think he got sick of writing Peter ( after a decade of it THAT I can understand). I do not think he was forced off of Amazing. Why? If that was the case he would have left the company ( like Alonso )and not have been allowed to move to Iron Man and Fantastic Four ( I also do not think he would ever be allowed to touch Spider-Man again ( and that includes the cartoon and the FF).

[Jman27]

I wasn't really sure where else to post this but I just thought it was interesting, "deleted" page from ASM 56 with Peter calling Matt in prison. https://www.comicartfans.com/Gallery...?Piece=1721750

The Bromance must continued why Spencer did you take it away

[Spiderfan001]

The Bromance must continued why Spencer did you take it away

I think editorial may have taken it out for either continuity or page number issues.Spencer needs to upload the dialogue for it or put this in another issue

[Jman27]

I think editorial may have taken it out for either continuity or page number issues.Spencer needs to upload the dialogue for it or put this in another issue

since when continuity stop comics before?

[Spiderfan001]

since when continuity stop comics before?

Man Marvel editorial is worse than Twitch banner guys.You never know what they can pull.Hopefully people can get Spencer to give us the dialogue.Please tweet/dm this to marvel and the writers and artist

[Celgress]

He killed and tortured.He took over someones life and then tried to get with his girlfriend.When rejected by her defiled their memories together by rubbing one of(implied).And all this aside people forget that he only decided to do good when he got Peter's memories.He didn't redeem himself because it wasn't otto it was otto and pete mixed together.Our memories make us who we are and the fact that they mixed those memories up means there was no redemption.

You do realize Otto isn't real, right? He's a character in a fictional work. There is nothing stopping him from being redeemed if the IP owners so choose and the story is well written. Were the story mechanics perfect, no, but I think the concept was still interesting in and of itself. I would have had Otto slowly reform on his own without the need for Peter's memories prompting him but that's just me.

Jeez, this sort of argument for fictional characters bothers me so much because of how short-sighted & hyperbolic it is.

[NC_Yankee]

You do realize Otto isn't real, right? He's a character in a fictional work. There is nothing stopping him from being redeemed if the IP owners so choose and the story is well written. Were the story mechanics perfect, no, but I think the concept was still interesting in and of itself. I would have had Otto slowly reform on his own without the need for Peter's memories prompting him but that's just me.

Jeez, this sort of argument for fictional characters bothers me so much because of how short-sighted & hyperbolic it is.

That is why the word “FAN” is short for fanatic. You get people obsessed with fictional characters ( and not just Otto). I always think of the Movie and Stephen King Novel Misery. The woman played by Kathy Bates was just like that. If someone does not like the direction of a story, then stop reading. It is not worth getting angry over ( let alone the lunatics who were sending death threats to Dan Slott).

[Spiderfan001]

You do realize Otto isn't real, right? He's a character in a fictional work. There is nothing stopping him from being redeemed if the IP owners so choose and the story is well written. Were the story mechanics perfect, no, but I think the concept was still interesting in and of itself. I would have had Otto slowly reform on his own without the need for Peter's memories prompting him but that's just me.

Jeez, this sort of argument for fictional characters bothers me so much because of how short-sighted & hyperbolic it is.

The story is not well written my man.And your argument about otto not being real is just saying that continuity doesn't matter and its okay for writer's to ignore it.The concept cost us an entire year of ASM and other titles like avenging spider-man that were great and then got derailed via this.Also don't forget the many tie-ins like in A+X with cyclops and magneto and in the Hickmans avengers run before Secret Wars.Concept is the first step and may I say the smaller step, its the execution that counts.Most concepts can be good with a good execution but the same is also not true since even a good concept(which I don't think this is) needs a mediocre execution to be fine.Also the run points out how otto is better than Pete like in the web-landing pillows even though we have seen peter beat otto in a brain match using otto's machine.And the part I *like* the most of how otto is supposed to be better than peter at managing stuff even though it was slott in the first place who made peter irresponsible.
I actually like good guy ock but Superior was not it.The second volume although ending was terrible(because editorial wanted it to I think) but it made better arguments for ock and humanized him.
Your argument bothers me so much because you are justifiying writers and editorial that pick and choose what part of history they want to focus on and what part to ignore completely.Its okay if its a couple of stories but not if it is more than 95% of the character's history.

[Spiderfan001]

That is why the word “FAN” is short for fanatic. You get people obsessed with fictional characters ( and not just Otto). I always think of the Movie and Stephen King Novel Misery. The woman played by Kathy Bates was just like that. If someone does not like the direction of a story, then stop reading. It is not worth getting angry over ( let alone the lunatics who were sending death threats to Dan Slott).

This is a forum for comic fans.People who like a character and here to talk about them.We discuss them here and voice are opinions.If you don't want to see people discuss these things then maybe you should stop visiting these forums.Sending threats of any kind to anyone is disgusting and should never be done.

[Frontier]

I wasn't really sure where else to post this but I just thought it was interesting, "deleted" page from ASM 56 with Peter calling Matt in prison. https://www.comicartfans.com/Gallery...?Piece=1721750

Kind of a shame they cut it. Looks like a good page...

[NC_Yankee]

This is a forum for comic fans.People who like a character and here to talk about them.We discuss them here and voice are opinions.If you don't want to see people discuss these things then maybe you should stop visiting these forums.Sending threats of any kind to anyone is disgusting and should never be done.

I do not disagree even 0.000001%. But you do have characters who obsess over things( including Amazing). I enjoy Spider-Man, and a good conversation ( I have even learned some things) but if Marvel quit publishing or the Yankees or Islanders ( two things I enjoy even more) went out of business it would not kill me.

[Spiderfan001]

I do not disagree even 0.000001%. But you do have characters who obsess over things( including Amazing). I enjoy Spider-Man, and a good conversation ( I have even learned some things) but if Marvel quit publishing or the Yankees or Islanders ( two things I enjoy even more) went out of business it would not kill me.

Agreed.Obsession with anything is unhealthy.Sometimes the line can be thin but hopefully we don't stray that far.Cheers

[Celgress]

The story is not well written my man.And your argument about otto not being real is just saying that continuity doesn't matter and its okay for writer's to ignore it....

1.) The writing not being "good" is subjective. Simply because you thought it was "bad" or I thought it was "good" doesn't make it so. Many fans and many critics alike enjoyed this fresh take on Otto and Spider-Man. Pre-Superior I had zero interest in the character of Doc Ock Post-Superior I was emotionally invested in his journey forward wherever that that might have taken him until, well, you know... Superior gave us Anna Maria Marconi. Anna Maria is widely recognized as one of the best new Spider-Man characters of the last twenty years.

2.) I said no such thing about continuity "not mattering" nor did I imply such.

[Celgress]

That is why the word “FAN” is short for fanatic. You get people obsessed with fictional characters ( and not just Otto). I always think of the Movie and Stephen King Novel Misery. The woman played by Kathy Bates was just like that. If someone does not like the direction of a story, then stop reading. It is not worth getting angry over ( let alone the lunatics who were sending death threats to Dan Slott).

I do find it interesting that some people will say "Otto doesn't deserve redemption because he hurt Peter or he wanted to rape MJ" regardless of it such a story would be narratively interesting to view as a reader, or not. You'd think a person hurt one of their loved ones the way some people act so outraged. Some people are indeed very attached to these characters perhaps a little too attached.